Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-16-2010, 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffadeuce View Post
I am sick of seeing a certain type of feddie in PvP. I have zero sympathy left for feddies that whine. Which, unfortunately, is a lot of feddies.

Oh c'mon seeing as most of them are terrible at pvp hearing them whine after a match is majority of the fun you can have
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-16-2010, 06:07 AM
Oddly enough at the times I play, FvsK pvp is always popping and wait times are never more than 5-10 minutes, so I do not understand what everybody is talking about. FvsK seems fine.

There is no inbalance between the factions, just the beleif that there is an inbalance propogated by one's defeat and disblief at such should being possible.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-16-2010, 06:16 AM
It's the Foundry Beta. I am busy making up sh*t. :p
I try to queue up for both, but the queue pops still more favorably with FvF.

That said, these are the fundamental issues I can see:

1) Not enough Klingon players.
It takes too long for any Klingon-related match to form, KvK being worse then FvK being worse then FvF.

2) PuG vs. Premade game imbalance.
With PuGs, cloaking devices usually rock and allow you to launch surprise attacks against lone wolfs that don't know how to cooperate.
At Premade level (based on how I understand it, as the outsider watching in) with people lending support and packing decent cloak counters, the value of surprise attacks is negated and whatever the cloaking device costs the ship with the device becomes the real liability.

3) Heterogenity in player composition
The Fed PvP population is very heterogen, it is likely you find inexperienced and experienced players with different talents when PuGging.
The Klingon PvP population is more homogenous. The "weak" players are typically chaffed out at earlier levels (they just don't have that much fun playing a KDF char with mainly PvP options), and it is hard to be inexperienced in PvP after 45 levels of play as Klingon.
You will typically find above average experienced players on the "K" side, but average players with different experience on the "F" side, leading to KvF often ending succesful for the "K" side.

Overall, the experience leads to a frustrating experience when Queuing up for FvK or KvK as a Fed player, and the experience in FvK is just better for KDF players.

And for serious premade matches, I suppose no one is relying on the Queues anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-16-2010, 06:36 AM
Feds Go Boom Better™
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-16-2010, 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
Feds Go Boom Better™
That is just wrong and I ask you to retra*BOOM*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-16-2010, 06:45 AM
I think PvP is dying overall in general because
1.) The need for decent teaming skills which are not native to most PUGs
2.) PUGs ending up pitted against Pre-mades
3.) The need of using more advance tools than Cryptic provides (e.g. Voice Chat)
4.) Lack of a 'faction' team system that allows players on one faction to see everyone (even beyond the normal 5 team member cap), share sensor data and exchange tactical/science/engineer proficiency.
5.) Stacking both attack buffs and resistance buffs have reached critical mass.
6.) Poor anti-cloak detection mechanism (You either see them or not)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-16-2010, 07:12 AM
i queue up for both a fair bit. I imagine there is a lack of kvk in the queue for one reason, the queue is either empty or it has 5 players waiting, this would suggest that it is a premade team (whether or not vented) and for 5 puggers to queue up to face a premade is low, when i have fought in kvk it has been against LORE, QEW or a team minimax or someone has put together. Never have i fought as a pug v pugs, tho i have fought as a premade of 3 with a pug or two but myself and any two from science wizards are going to give a team a good run even if we don't win, so it will be fun. There are just not often the payers online playing kdf in teams to see kvk.

If you are solo pugging you are like to play in matches that maximise the odds that you will get a match vs other solo players, this is likely in fvk more often than not and is also likely in fvf. While there are premandes running in both those it lowers the odds you will face one unlike in kvk.

Course you didn't really need an answer on that question, and you know it has nothing to do with faction balance and everything to do with getting beaten to crap by a premade. The 'everyone is always cloaked' and so is boring only happens from a pug perspective, in a kvk vs lore there was no waiting to find a target, hale was uncloaked, i ran the sci ship so cannot cloak. Yet even with 5 bops, which we have run, if you are confident in the abilities of you team mates you can uncloak first, and survive a klingon alpha, even if you die you can still be ahead 5-1 by the time you return by which time the game has become an almost non stop dogfight with people uncloaking as soon as they are back with power.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-16-2010, 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardept View Post
i queue up for both a fair bit. I imagine there is a lack of kvk in the queue for one reason, the queue is either empty or it has 5 players waiting, this would suggest that it is a premade team (whether or not vented) and for 5 puggers to queue up to face a premade is low, when i have fought in kvk it has been against LORE, QEW or a team minimax or someone has put together. Never have i fought as a pug v pugs, tho i have fought as a premade of 3 with a pug or two but myself and any two from science wizards are going to give a team a good run even if we don't win, so it will be fun. There are just not often the payers online playing kdf in teams to see kvk.

If you are solo pugging you are like to play in matches that maximise the odds that you will get a match vs other solo players, this is likely in fvk more often than not and is also likely in fvf. While there are premandes running in both those it lowers the odds you will face one unlike in kvk.

Course you didn't really need an answer on that question, and you know it has nothing to do with faction balance and everything to do with getting beaten to crap by a premade. The 'everyone is always cloaked' and so is boring only happens from a pug perspective, in a kvk vs lore there was no waiting to find a target, hale was uncloaked, i ran the sci ship so cannot cloak. Yet even with 5 bops, which we have run, if you are confident in the abilities of you team mates you can uncloak first, and survive a klingon alpha, even if you die you can still be ahead 5-1 by the time you return by which time the game has become an almost non stop dogfight with people uncloaking as soon as they are back with power.
This makes sense on the matter and is the more likely canidate for truth...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-16-2010, 08:12 AM
Just want to chime in here and point out that at T2 and T3, the Klingons are getting thrashed more often than not; in my experience anyway. Well... in space at any rate; there isn't much ground PvP going on at those ranks so I can't really tell about that.

FvF games are rare in the extreme; I think I've got in a whole 2 of them since I started on this character.

As you move up the ranks, PvP becomes less and less about just shooting things, and more about perfecting the timing of ability chains/stacking. Klingon players are simply better at this because they get more practice (looking at the factions overall, not just the particular skill of given individuals).

Last time I got a char to Admiral, it was like I was suddenly playing a different game (and one I didn't care for much if I'm being honest); but I don't blame their ships for that, since it was the same on the ground.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-16-2010, 09:40 AM
STO just needs a ranking system or something equivalent. Lots of the Klinks that play have more experience (played a Fed PVE through to the cap and wanted to try something new).

Have a leader board that ranks everyone and make matches that should be a challenge for all of the people involved.

I had the pleasure of fighting LORE KvK last night with my Brother and a Friend. The first match they had a very heal oriented team. We mopped the floor with them with the Help of Jorf and His Bop.

The second Match Jorf switched over to play with his mates and we suffered a loss, but the match went on for a very long time as teams worked well together. This was great as opposed to coming up against Fed or Klink PUGS that only last 5-10 minutes at best.

A Separate Premade Queue Might be fun too, for anyone that wants a challenge. You need to be challenged to get better at Pvp, otherwise you just get complacent and Target Hale all the time lol

Thanks Again LORE for giving us a challenge!!
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