Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 11 How I see it,
12-16-2010, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Good points... to take it a step further...

ATTN: FEDS
Your pugs LOOSE all the time cause you won't get out of that silly cruiser. YOU are not going to tank a damage speced klink team... YOU are not going to do enough damage to WIN. Simple solution, fly a few escorts. Yes 5 sci ships... or 5 engi cruisers... may eke out a win... sometimes. Against some klinks. However you are ALL in cruisers, and most of you are not at all in the right ships.
End Rant.

Honestly I see so many skilled fed pilots flying the wrong ship... if you are half way decent do yourself a solid; go to tribble right now and fly a few of the escorts, try the ones you have never flown before. Think of your play style when you load it. Guess what you will like it.
True I see this all the time in C&Hs’ Feds all in NG cruisers maybe one or two sci and rarely an escort. The FEDs can pull out a one or two out of fifteen if that yay they can tank the whole match and die only four times but the five cap are orange and score reads 1200 klingon 0 Federation. So you want to know why because you all can not split your forces if you do you get wiped and that happens five out of the fifteen times. Some need to try playing at different times 3:30am PST when Europe is on that I like to try and go on when I get a day off. Because them Europeans are a smaller group and are more diverse group flying sci, cruiser, escorts and giving us some fight. See C&H is a whole different game I usually fly straight to the Feds spawn and engage the feds 15km out of the turret range. Whit full power to shield great shield heals an engine batt and evasive ready to break and cloak well my allies cap. Funny thing is there is no way to stop me and all the feds are held up at 3:am this does not happen because they got 4 escort and they will tar me up.
Lt. Commander
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# 12
12-16-2010, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Escorts are not supposed to be tanks... if thats what you want, then go over to the dark side and fly a BoP.
Yes, yes. come to the darkside, yes come.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-18-2010, 04:04 PM
DARKSIDE!!!!! I would have more on the darkside but grinding to max level is icky! SSSOOOOOOO I just fly a defiant R... then I can cloak like the darkside!
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# 14
12-20-2010, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyBushman
So lately I see a lot of people saying how escorts are the weakest ships in the game.

(snip)

just a recap of the material so far....
1) Escorts have the 2nd highest hull,
2) escorts(good) have speed for defense.
3) Escorts are the DPS class.
1) It does not matter if you have the second highest hull if you don't have the Engineering or Sci powers + slots to keep healing .

2) Escorts are not as nimble as BOP's , and they can't turn on a dime without an additional RCS Accelerator console (Flight Turn Rate strength) -- which is something you need if you are going to use all the 4 sides of your shields against an opponent by turning rapidly . (learned this manuver on The Dark Side)

3) DPS isn't everything , in fact in PVP , surviving is everything .
Why ?
Because when you and your DPS ship go out like a candle in the wind (being targeted first by an Alpha Strike) , THEN the rest of your PVP team gets hammered by an un-equal number of ships , and that rarely prooves to be an advantage (exept maybe in your mind ... ) .
So by the time you get your John Wayne ass back in the game , your buddy , your team mate , your wingman , got blown up too , not because he was Big On DPS , but because he got hammered by two or more ships , and you were not there to help him .
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# 15 Lol this is silly
12-20-2010, 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotrik1 View Post
1) It does not matter if you have the second highest hull if you don't have the Engineering or Sci powers + slots to keep healing .

2) Escorts are not as nimble as BOP's , and they can't turn on a dime without an additional RCS Accelerator console (Flight Turn Rate strength) -- which is something you need if you are going to use all the 4 sides of your shields against an opponent by turning rapidly . (learned this manuver on The Dark Side)

3) DPS isn't everything , in fact in PVP , surviving is everything .
Why ?
Because when you and your DPS ship go out like a candle in the wind (being targeted first by an Alpha Strike) , THEN the rest of your PVP team gets hammered by an un-equal number of ships , and that rarely prooves to be an advantage (exept maybe in your mind ... ) .
So by the time you get your John Wayne ass back in the game , your buddy , your team mate , your wingman , got blown up too , not because he was Big On DPS , but because he got hammered by two or more ships , and you were not there to help him .
DPS is the most important thing in the game amigo.... sorry to burst the cruiser bubble but the team that does the most DPS not DOT is the one who wins matches... with the way healing is set up in this game you need burst or you either A) have the longest match in existance, or B) the other team has more DPS than you do and ur healers suck so you die. If your escort goes pop in the beginning of the match via alpha... sorry but more than often its not the escorts fault its the teams fault for not healing. In our premade we run two defiants and guess what?????? They almost never die. A) because they get heals B) when their heals are out they are not afraid to do a bit of "tactical redeployment"

NEXTTTTT You mention that an escort does not have the heals to keep alive... well DUH if they had heals and the amount of damage that they output they would be OP... it is the teams resposibility to heal the escorts. they have a purpose, and they fit it well... just cause some people would like to take the easy road and fly a cruiser, does not make escorts any less of a class. I love the reasoning behind "surviving is everything!" In fact surviving is not everything, it is everything for a stalemate... but to win you need to do more damage than the other teams healing. Sorry but that is done via burst with this game.... so stick with your surviving, me and my friends will stick with winning..

Oh and P.S. once the new sets come out let me know how the "suriviving" goes it is this time when escorts will once again be abundant in PvP because you wont be killing without some major burst.

P.P.S. Im not John Wayne nor am I an ass soooo I dont see your point there... ok maybe a bit of an ass... BUT still Its playing a class how it is designed. nothing to do with old westerns : /
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# 16
12-20-2010, 09:55 PM
Bushman wrote :

> sorry to burst the cruiser bubble but the team that does the most DPS not DOT is the one who wins matches...

OK , I guess we have a difference in our POV , and speaking of that difference ...

> more than often its not the escorts fault its the teams fault for not healing.
> it is the teams resposibility to heal the escorts

While I do like to heal as often as I can , when I get 2 or more opponents on my tail , you can bet that I'm going to heal MYSELF .
But I'd also like to point out that it's not an intitlement of escorts to be healed , and while I don't like it when there are PUGs where ppl don't often heal , I can understand that some players who don't sit in escorts also want to pew-pew a little instead of always watching the escorts fragile tail ... , because belive it or not , that isn't always fun .

Now as to my POV , I did level a Tac , and I did my tour in various escorts , and starting a noob , I only learned to heal others when I became a Ca[pitain .
However in T5 PVP I called it quits after going BOOM time after time after time in PVP .
Maybe that was because Feds knew even less about inter-player healing back then then they do now .
I also blame the lack of a Battle Cloack on the T5 Defiant .

> In fact surviving is not everything, it is everything for a stalemate...

Where did you ge that from ???

> but to win you need to do more damage than the other teams healing

That is true but only to a point .
From your POV , Getting Healed + DPS = win .
From mine , its Healing + Being abe to Survive on your own = win .

You want a quick victory , I enjoy the drawn out combat where you can learn about / chat with the enemy .

> just cause some people would like to take the easy road and fly a cruiser

How exactly is that the easy road with low manuverability and the expectation by "certain ppl" for constant heals , that they can't do on their own ?
By going down this road of thought , I'll end up calling Escorts "the wellfare ppl of PVP" -- and honestly , I don't wanna do that .

But I also dislike the EXPECTATION to always heal .
Because you know what ? I'll take a PUG of Sci / Engineers and clean the clock of your team of Escorts any day of the week .
That's the difference between being able to stand and always needing a walker to keep you steady .
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# 17
12-20-2010, 10:23 PM
lolDPS cruisers is what is hurting PVP. Certain ships have an expectation of being healed, at least once in a whilet, because they are designed to have that dependency.

Ironically, you went boom one too many times because you didn't get the support your ship needed from people who felt like their lawlDPS cruiser was the ****. So rather than doing anything about it you took on the mentality of the people who were doing it wrong and letting you die. It's like that cycle of abuse or something.

Don't be a DouchePS cruiser! Break the cycle!
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# 18
12-20-2010, 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
Don't be a DouchePS cruiser! Break the cycle!
Sadly, My experience in PvP since season 2 has been that if you dont pug in a cruiser, your just flat out gonna be counting your kill/death ration and wondering if it was worth it to get say 11 kills and 8 deaths.

Either cruisers need their DoT capabilities nerfed, or change the way the kill counter works.
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# 19
12-20-2010, 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotrik1 View Post
Bushman wrote :

> sorry to burst the cruiser bubble but the team that does the most DPS not DOT is the one who wins matches...

OK , I guess we have a difference in our POV , and speaking of that difference ...
Ty isn't some experienced player he is right... its fact and hard numbers not POV. Heal all you want, playing to survive will cost you matches. Play to win, if you want to win, play to survive if you want to prolong your loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotrik1 View Post
> more than often its not the escorts fault its the teams fault for not healing.
> it is the teams resposibility to heal the escorts

While I do like to heal as often as I can , when I get 2 or more opponents on my tail , you can bet that I'm going to heal MYSELF .
But I'd also like to point out that it's not an intitlement of escorts to be healed , and while I don't like it when there are PUGs where ppl don't often heal , I can understand that some players who don't sit in escorts also want to pew-pew a little instead of always watching the escorts fragile tail ... , because belive it or not , that isn't always fun .
This is Tys point if you are looking to Pew Pew you are IN THE WRONG ship. Cruisers are not Pew pew machines. If you have 2 guys on your tail... perhaps you should have kept that escort up for 20 more seconds then perhaps you would have ONE on your tail... or mabey even NONE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotrik1 View Post
I also blame the lack of a Battle Cloack on the T5 Defiant .
Of course blame the equipment. Many of us have no issues with our kick backside cloaking escorts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotrik1 View Post
How exactly is that the easy road with low manuverability and the expectation by "certain ppl" for constant heals , that they can't do on their own ?
By going down this road of thought , I'll end up calling Escorts "the wellfare ppl of PVP" -- and honestly , I don't wanna do that .
Truth is a well built escort needs very very little healing support. I pug often in mine and go 10-15 and ZERO while the squishy DPS cruisers pop like corn. Cruisers are where failed pilots go. Its kind of like the Bass guitar... most people that play it where not so great with the 6 string version. (no offense to bass players)
And just like the bass guitar... the best players know the role of their instrument. Yes there are very good cruiser players out there and they heal... and provide some damage support. They don't expect to win matches with 4 clones of themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotrik1 View Post
But I also dislike the EXPECTATION to always heal .
Because you know what ? I'll take a PUG of Sci / Engineers and clean the clock of your team of Escorts any day of the week .
That's the difference between being able to stand and always needing a walker to keep you steady .
I smell a grudge match.
TY you have been called out you better round up 5 OOV escorts I think. (If you need help we can lend you an extra ship or two) lol

The Engi Cruisers are coming out to beat on you escorts... they are getting ready for battle it seems.

Fight and you may die. Run and you will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now,
would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one cahnce, to come back here as young men and tell our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take our freedom!
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# 20
12-20-2010, 11:20 PM
Yeah, I can't deny that the system in general benefits the solo DPS cruiser over an escort. I don't really know how to nerf cruiser dps without nerfing cruisers (sure, why not just **** off 80% of the players) to make escorts more viable. Escorts require more teamwork and a fair amount of love but my point is that in PuGs that love is very unlikely. That's a problem that's further perpetuated by the "my cruiser can do more damage over time with fewer deaths so all my heals are belong to me" mentality.

Unfortunately (perhaps?), the state of the game right now means that escorts would really be nice to have on hand if you can afford to give them the love and attention they deserve. Resistance is too high so people go for cruiser easy mode and give up the burst potential that they need in order to take down cruisers whose resistance is too high.

Round and round we go, lol.
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