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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
12-22-2010, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatmaker69 View Post
Funny, we steamroll these so-called hard raids with the ultimate weapon...

Teamwork.

Time and time again, with records of 50 minute Infected runs, 1h15 minute Cure runs, and the average 2hr. Khitomer Runs.

Have you all considered joining a fleet with the knowledge that many fleets have about raiding? Sitting around complaining that Cryptic needs to fix the game is all well and good. That's not going to happen overnight; so if you want your Borg Gear... maybe it's time you look for a solution you can apply now.

Or you can continue your QQ and ****-flinging antics, either way, I'll get my gear for all my characters and my fleet will achieve the same results...

While you'll all be crying about how "hard" or "broken" or "lame" it is...

/rant+LOL
Personally I could care less about the Borg gear. This has nothing to do with the gear at all. The fact of the matter is that the STF's only work if you have an exact setup with the exactly right kits and you are on voice and you don't get hit with crits or any other random things that can 1 shot you.

The AI is lousy. The planning for these STF's is basically walk down this long curvy hallway and shoot everything until you win or get frustrated and leave. You need to have a premade team of people that know every aspect of it. This does not encourage new people to the fold. I have finished the Cure 3 times..and frankly I am done with it.

I have played about 10 MMO's now and can say without the slightest hesitation in the least that the ground combat in STO is by far the worst I have ever experienced.

The whole game forces you to do one thing or another. If you want to PvP, and be successful, you have to fully spec into that aspect. So, if you are fully specced into space.. you can't do STF's...and if you are specced into ground, you can't space PvP and space battles in STF's make you a healer's nightmare.

I am sure the whole thing would work much better if we had dual builds or separate ground points. But the hard facts are that Cryptic changed how the skill tree worked a few weeks before launch. I know, because I was there. Originally, there was no skill point cap. You see, you were supposed to keep gaining skill points and eventually max the whole tree. Then Cryptic would add new skills over time that you could invest in. This is why all weapons of any tier do the same DPS.. because it was not supposed to matter... it was just supposed to add diversity to your build.

Keeping that in mind, the game seems to have been continually developed with the odd thought that the original way is still the way that the tree works...as far as placing everybody on the "same skill" level for these STF's. Some people are not specced into ground..and cannot spend the 60,000 starfleet merits to spec in and spec out of it every time you want to do a STF.

So get off your high horse and realize that there are problems. It seems that Cryptic has at least acknowledged it since season 4 is based around fixing the craptacular ground combat that exists in STO.

I know that this is the vast majority of the view of this game.. the ground combat sucks..

I hate it that a lot of the people I started this game with are now gone....and there is a reason for that.

And the subscriptions just keep on falling......
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
12-22-2010, 01:24 PM
Pugs need group content as well, and elite mode exploration missions is not going to cut it and it is not the answer to the problem of there is just not enough end-game for everyone to enjoy.

I would not go as far as saying STFs are hard, but I would go as far as saying there are a lot of needless headaches involved and that they could be designed to feel more fun for a lot more people than just a few.

There are not a lot of alternatives to be had for content, so what do you expect pugs to do, right we try to run STFs that were not designed for us.

Yea, it is a bit of a rant, but I am also getting tired of people acting like pugs should not have group content that is suited for them.
If we had more pug group content, then there is a strong possibility that the pugs will graduate on up to hardmodes or will not bother with trying to have hardmode content adjusted.

Yes, I do agree we need dual builds and the ground combat skill system along with ground gear does need a revamp.
Just look at all the gear and combos you can get with ships vs ground gear for each class.

For example: I would love to see science get a lot more CC abilities for ground combat than they get, or at least more effective feeling CC.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
12-22-2010, 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meesora
Pugs need group content as well, and elite mode exploration missions is not going to cut it and it is not the answer to the problem of there is just not enough end-game for everyone to enjoy.

I would not go as far as saying STFs are hard, but I would go as far as saying there are a lot of needless headaches involved and that they could be designed to feel more fun for a lot more people than just a few.

There are not a lot of alternatives to be had for content, so what do you expect pugs to do, right we try to run STFs that were not designed for us.

Yea, it is a bit of a rant, but I am also getting tired of people acting like pugs should not have group content that is suited for them.
If we had more pug group content, then there is a strong possibility that the pugs will graduate on up to hardmodes or will not bother with trying to have hardmode content adjusted.

Yes, I do agree we need dual builds and the ground combat skill system along with ground gear does need a revamp.
Just look at all the gear and combos you can get with ships vs ground gear for each class.

For example: I would love to see science get a lot more CC abilities for ground combat than they get, or at least more effective feeling CC.
1) You do have group content suited to you. The whole game can be done on Elite (Hardmode...) with Pug's if you wanted to. The reality here is you want the Premade team oriented specific missions, The STF's, to be dumbed down to the rest of the game's lackluster challenge level. As Gozer has stated many times, that is not the way STF's are designed. Thankfully he's back and he will be creating even more challenging Taskforces for people who actually enjoy playing this content with other people.

2) I agree; Cryptic needs to make a dual build AND seperate Space and Ground skill point pools. This could make it easier for pick-up groups of strangers who don't understand how to run Infected, Cure, or wtv to be able to run it.

3) I have no inclination to explain ground combat for you, but if you are interested, you can run a raid with me. There you will see just how many "combos" the're really are on ground. I actually enjoy both aspects of combat in STO and am looking forward to the ground combat "re-vamp"

@Jarus: I'll stay on my high horse; enjoying what's good.. while you stay down there focusing on what's wrong all over the place. Good luck with that lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
12-22-2010, 03:31 PM
Infected took me a couple hours to do.

But then again, we were a team with nothing but TAC's.

And I forgot to get myself some large hypos.

And we were all PuGs with no Ventrilo or Teamspeak.

And for part of it my connection was flaky...

Had a lot going against me, still did it! And still enjoyed it.

But STF can be griefy without contributing to the challenge factor.

For example, in the starbase, all the drones have the rooted ability. WTF? Did they have this in PvE?

Also, the starbase's respawn points were ridiculously far away from the action.

Then there was the dreaded queen's chamber. The plasma gas on the floor and the jumping part? A great challenge. Making the whole group start over each time and cutting off the respawned players from the team via a forcefield? Griefy and time delaying! That's the difference.

I like the missions. They are a challenge. But sometimes the Devs need to know the difference between a challenge and a headache.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
12-22-2010, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
Ah, I see you are not reading correctly. No wonder you don't understand what I am saying.
Help me out, what didn't I understand?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
12-22-2010, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatmaker69 View Post
1) You do have group content suited to you. The whole game can be done on Elite (Hardmode...) with Pug's if you wanted to. The reality here is you want the Premade team oriented specific missions, The STF's, to be dumbed down to the rest of the game's lackluster challenge level. As Gozer has stated many times, that is not the way STF's are designed. Thankfully he's back and he will be creating even more challenging Taskforces for people who actually enjoy playing this content with other people.
Not entirely, and as mentioned before, elite mode content does not count.
Elite mode exploration missions do not drive a story and mission replay or weeklies are still not the same either as they do not really further the plot to any great extent anymore and keep you engaged in the main story like end-game group oriented content does in many cases this being no exception.

I don't want to do away with STFs or their current mode, let's get straight on this (I should have been more clear in the original posting on that I admit).
I want alternative versions of STFs that are suited more towards the pug level where people can just get on throw a group together and just have fun with a couple of challeges here and there that actually challenge your skill, not your patience for your team while at the same time being able to enjoy the plot.

I want an alternate version, not the current ones brought down or done away with.
It really would be a win/win for everyone to have alternate versions.

I am not worried about the loot either (just catching that issue before it gets brought up about my reasoning for an alternate version).
I am pretty fair minded when it comes to how loot is rewarded and the loot should scale appropriately with the difficulty.

As for the combos, I was refering really to the very limited feeling of gear abilities for each class for each kit, it feels like each kit is missing one or two abilities and some of the existing abilities feel like they are just a bit underpowered (kinda having an off day, my apologies for the lack of clarity).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
12-22-2010, 05:20 PM
All I've read so far was this, " I just want to run from room to room and kill everything". I think that sums up the complaints I'm seeing. In the real world, does the military ever do something without planing it? Do Swat teams not have plans before they break into a building? Those of us saying they are fine is because we make plans before we go.

Too 1nONLY_DRock - a 5 man tac team puts out a ton of DPS and can be done faster then combo teams. Not having large hypo's does hurt though. ( Expect some deaths to occur) The closer to the starting point you are, just respawn. As you get further away ask a teammate to heal you right there on the spot.

I did 4 eng 1 sci last night, it took a good long time even for 3 of us on TS and 2 pug's. Maybe 2 and a half hours, but we don't do dps, we can pop domes and that greatly helped with the melee damage and assimilation. We survived long enough to kill them. Borg room, well after some miss timed jumps just the 3 of us on TS were left on the corner platform. It was hairy for awhile but we finally got up together to get her. (Note dome will not push her away unfornately)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
12-22-2010, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nONLY_DRock
Then there was the dreaded queen's chamber. The plasma gas on the floor and the jumping part? A great challenge. Making the whole group start over each time and cutting off the respawned players from the team via a forcefield? Griefy and time delaying! That's the difference..
Nah, that's all fine.

A boss fight should not let you zerg it, just constantly respawning and throwing yourself at it. The fact that someone has to rez you or you get locked out is good. And if they cannot, well, then the team either wins without you or dies and you try it again, from the top. Not like the fight takes that long either.

It, and to a lesser a degree the other boss fight, are about the only two things in Infection that are well done.

It is all the trash getting to the place that detracts from the fun. Just group after group, a decent chunk of them with a node you need to kill first. Rooting, stunning, knocking people down. Summoning more crap. And if you die, it means nothing more than waiting until someone rezzes you or else you make the long run back. It isn't fun. It isn't really challenging. It is just annoying.

If they cut the amount of terrain you need to clear trash in in half for the STFs, it would greatly enhance them. Note that I'm not saying lower mob density, but rather, a smaller map or less portions of the map with that density of mobs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
12-22-2010, 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axterix
Nah, that's all fine.

A boss fight should not let you zerg it, just constantly respawning and throwing yourself at it. The fact that someone has to rez you or you get locked out is good. And if they cannot, well, then the team either wins without you or dies and you try it again, from the top. Not like the fight takes that long either.

It, and to a lesser a degree the other boss fight, are about the only two things in Infection that are well done.

It is all the trash getting to the place that detracts from the fun. Just group after group, a decent chunk of them with a node you need to kill first. Rooting, stunning, knocking people down. Summoning more crap. And if you die, it means nothing more than waiting until someone rezzes you or else you make the long run back. It isn't fun. It isn't really challenging. It is just annoying.

If they cut the amount of terrain you need to clear trash in in half for the STFs, it would greatly enhance them. Note that I'm not saying lower mob density, but rather, a smaller map or less portions of the map with that density of mobs.
I think multiple spawn points would work better. The only issue with shortening the map would be the aggro factor. Already, 1 errant shot will aggro a second group. If we confine the space and the mobs are closer, more likely we will aggro to much for a 5 man team to handle. 2 mobs is hard enough, with a possbile 3rd group everyone will die.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
12-22-2010, 07:10 PM
KA.. basic key for easy success.. 3 tac ships on left gate, cruiser and sci on right gate.. find a stopwatch, time the gate, kill probes first. After part 1 is over, rest is a cakewalk, simple nodes and patrols.
want to make interior easier, stop using the cane when you have borg groups above or below you because it aggros them with it's aoe. (actually lifted the node on the top level off the deck which was hilarious to see while he was on the middle deck).

best key to victory, keep a black book of players you run with with notes... find good people, stick with them and you will see how simple these are.
http://federationfleet.guildlaunch.c...php?gid=118443
we have been running an average of 2 stf's a day and ran 5 yesterday since interest has picked up in these things. once you get thru this stuff you will forever /doublefacepalm when you see posts saying how tough and impossible these are...
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