Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-23-2010, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
Me too. How long are you willing to wait for it though?
Honestly, as long as it takes. There's no point in beaming an away team to a ship to find and rescue the hostages.. if they've already got transport pattern enhancers set up, and won't beam away even if you activate them.

I wasn't going to place combat encounters on this map, so It's a complete waste of map building time and effort to even bother building the ship's interior if once we get there there's only NPC's standing around to chat with, and the only interaction you have with objects, is making glowing things stop glowing.

I'm most certainly willing to wait til it goes live to Holodeck.. and honestly, the integrity of my story is important enough, that I'd happily hold off on completing the mission, rather than compromise the objectives I have in mind. It may seem like a small matter to you, but when the entire first act of the mission is "locate damaged ship, rescue survivors" and there's no interactive way to search for and rescue the survivors.. and once I walk into the area where "Commander John" is standing there waiting for me.. he just keeps standing there once we've chatted. Can't beam him up.. can't have him follow my team either.

No offense meant to the foundry developers.. the foundry is an amazing tool.. but it's still very unfinished, and the mission objectives I want to use (set the explosive charges, "talk to" the injured crewmen and beam them away).. simply aren't present in the current version of the foundry. I'd rather wait til cryptic gives me the tools to build the mission(s) I want to create, rather than compromise the vision and build yet another "enter an area, see enemy, battle enemy, kill enemy, win" mission.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-23-2010, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PodSix View Post
No offense meant to the foundry developers.. the foundry is an amazing tool.. but it's still very unfinished, and the mission objectives I want to use (set the explosive charges, "talk to" the injured crewmen and beam them away).. simply aren't present in the current version of the foundry. I'd rather wait til cryptic gives me the tools to build the mission(s) I want to create, rather than compromise the vision and build yet another "enter an area, see enemy, battle enemy, kill enemy, win" mission.
Coming from City of Heroes Mission Architect, the Foundry already offers some features that are a huge improvement, so I'm excited to experience the Foundry right now, for what it is right now.

That doesn't mean I'm not constantly thinking about the future, but I'm not willing to wait. I also have to admit, I'm also excited about the tricks we are required to come up with to make our stories without compromising the story's vision so much so that the story doesn't even get made.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-23-2010, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_BlownApart
Sounds to me like he wants things to "do stuff" like become disabled, create an effect, become a destroyed looking object, Vanish, appear, change states ect. You seem to have a comprehension problem today Darren... are you tired?
I got that part but I'm having trouble seeing how it really relates to keyframe editing. I struggle with the analogy.

Adding simultaneous objectives and more complex triggers have been requested for a while now - it's just I'm not sure how that really relates to keyframe video editing.

Quote:
No offense meant to the foundry developers.. the foundry is an amazing tool.. but it's still very unfinished, and the mission objectives I want to use (set the explosive charges, "talk to" the injured crewmen and beam them away).. simply aren't present in the current version of the foundry.
um... you can do that, so long as you beam away at the same time.

Quote:
I'd rather wait til cryptic gives me the tools to build the mission(s) I want to create, rather than compromise the vision and build yet another "enter an area, see enemy, battle enemy, kill enemy, win" mission.
Poor Shakespeare. He created all those plays before the advent of film.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-23-2010, 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor View Post
it's just I'm not sure how that really relates to keyframe video editing.
I think that analogy the OP was trying to make is that by removing an object from a map, as a result of a player's interaction, is like removing/modifying a frame... I think.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-23-2010, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Poor Shakespeare. He created all those plays before the advent of film.
Quote:
Scene one, in which our hero enters upon the smoudering wreck of a vessel at sea. He has a sense that some of his fellow countrymen are still aboard.. if mayhaps wounded. Our hero digs through the wreckage, in search of survivors.

Hero: Lo, I have discovered a passage. I shall enter it forthwith.


Our hero does indeed enter the doorway, to find a strapping young man standing unscathed. His clothing neatly pressed, and not a mark upon him, the man stands unharmed among the wreckage, fit, and a bit bored looking, he stands his gound, only casually casting a look in our hero's direction.

Hero: Zounds! One of my countrymen has survived the attack! I shall inquire as to his need.

Our hero walks into the room, in clear sight of the young man. He doesn't change a twitch in his stance.

Hero: I shall perhaps have to stand closer to the young man.. surely he is in shock, and has not noticed my arrival.

Young Man: Thank goodness you've come.. as you can see by the devastation around you, all but a few among the crew were lost.

Hero: How is it that you seem unscathed?

Young Man: (ignoring the question) You must rescue me immediately, I am near to death.

Our hero stands perplexed.. the doctor aboard his own vessel could surely help a dying man, but this man seems perfectly fit, and what's more.. unwilling to loose is hold upon the ground. Our hero tries to lead the man to the gangplank, in an effort to rescue him.. but he refuses to budge an inch.

Hero: I wish to rescue you.. come with me.

Young Man: Oh thank goodness.


The Young man stands immobile, and though he mentioned other survivors, now our Hero finds he cannot move either in search of those other survivors. He stands perplexed, wondering if those other survivors will perish.. and wondering if he, himself might perish on this doomed ship, since he also cannot leave.


End scene.
Shakespeare could give scene direction.. and actors could move. Actors could also introduce props into the scene. If a play were written like that, no one would see the need for such a scene.. and building complex sets for such a scene would be preposterous.

We have no dirty clothing options.
We have no injurred NPC Contact options.
We have no flesh injury options.
We have no "dirt" options.
We have no "radiation" option for space missions that raises red alert and slows the ship (like in the briar patch)
We have no option to ask an NPC contact to follow us (like Miral Paris)
We have no option to have an NPC "leave" once we've talked to them (like Khan)
We have no option to either place, or remove an object (like when we place/disarm the spacial charges)
We have no option to independently beam up generic NPC's (like on the SS Azuza)
We can't even unlock a door.. much less destroy one with melee attacks.

The situation I've described is a very real one in my story. There are SEVERAL groups of survivors.. and my goal is to enter the ship, locate group one (and in the process, find a clue that advances the story).. rescue them, or erect transporter pattern enhancer poles, get them to follow my team, or at least get them moved to a beam-out point.. then move on to finding the NEXT group of survivors, and the next piece of information that helps explain the story.

This is not your usual shoot-em-up skirmish, it's an actual long arc mission I am planning.

We can't save maps, and we can't reuse them. Which means that if I want to rescue just THREE groups of survivors, I have to build three maps that seem reasonably identical, and transition from map 1 to map 2 in order to remove the first group of survivors? And what if by some strange chance, the player finds group 2 first, or wanders off into the area where group 2 will be on map 2?

I wanted to do something different, something more Star Trek than "there are reports of Klingons in the area.. don't talk to them, don't try to reason with them, just KILL THEM ALL ON SIGHT.. OH AND FEEL FREE TO FIRE FIRST... slaughter them from behind.. or in their sleep if possible."

I love this game, and I realize it could be so much more if people like myself, with lots of free time, could add the sort of long-story content that made the Devidian and Breen missions so popular. But to do that, we need the tools. and they're not there yet.

Sometimes it's worth putting off a project until the right tools are available.

When the foundry goes live on Holodeck, I'll work on other stories.. and yes I'm sure I'll make a few senseless battles as well. the STO engine excels at those. I'll keep my larger story on the back burner until we can rez-in pattern buffers and til we can establish a point in the story when NPC's should "start" (beam in) and "end" (beam out).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-23-2010, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
I think that analogy the OP was trying to make is that by removing an object from a map, as a result of a player's interaction, is like removing/modifying a frame... I think.
That's got me even more confused... and I lived through the 60s.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-23-2010, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor View Post
That's got me even more confused... and I lived through the 60s.
That'd make you 40 or older... wouldn't it?!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-23-2010, 02:29 PM
Well,in a way you can already do this. Timing is based off Flowchart order rather than a key frame sequence.
If Joe Klingon is meant to speak or act "after" several native Risan women offer you a er..back massage? That can somewhat be controlled as well. But what your asking for is some kind of "timer" for an event,after a "trigger" or waypoint objective is met, thing is if it is random and not based on something done by the characters actions, it sounds like timing delays of idles/weight emote sequnces of npc's, otherwise the order on Flowchart pretty much "is" your keyframe.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-23-2010, 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
That'd make you 40 or older... wouldn't it?!
I was joking. I'm in my mid 20s.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-23-2010, 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor View Post
I was joking. I'm in my mid 20s.
Whippersnapper!




I'm joking too. :-)
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