Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
12-29-2010, 12:44 AM
I'll be honest. That price is sick. We all have to pay to play this game. It's not like we are playing for free and they are using the C-Store to fund the game. We all pay to play (or did once with a lifetime and as long as we have to pay to play we shouldn't be forced to spend the cost of a new game to just get new content.

I think Cryptic is a little confused on the difference between pay to play and free to play.

I am all for selling a few bonus things or quality of life items in the store, like Character slots or name changes.

But when you keep putting the new content items in the store....I wonder why we are paying a sub.

Everything that is in the store, except things like name changes and character slots, should be gainable in game. If from accolades, tokens, time played...whatever. We shouldn't be expected to pay for content we are already paying for in our subs. We shouldn't even be asked.

I don't want to see the game fail, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

I hear the ship is a menace, and if what I have heard/seen is accurate then people are actually paying 20 bucks for an in-game advantage. That, to me, is a big no-no. Cosmetics or things that don't give anyone an upperhand are fine. But how well you can do in-game should never be defined by how much you can spend. Even if I can afford to buy advantages, it ruins the game to make it so.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
12-29-2010, 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staalker View Post
I hear the ship is a menace, and if what I have heard/seen is accurate then people are actually paying 20 bucks for an in-game advantage. That, to me, is a big no-no. Cosmetics or things that don't give anyone an upperhand are fine. But how well you can do in-game should never be defined by how much you can spend. Even if I can afford to buy advantages, it ruins the game to make it so.
I've yet to hear anyone say that. What I have heard, and it matches my experience, is that it is subpar to the Raptor. Not by much, but worse. I have heard one person say it is effective when used in a pre-built group based around using it, but even that person didn't claim it was better than Raptors, just not worse in such a situation. For PUGs, the same player said definitely worse.

Beyond that, you get the occasional person mentioning big hits with the Javelin, but they typically fail to take into account lost DPS from the time during the charge animation and the subsequent leaving of siege mode, as well as DPS lost due to mounting lower DPS weapons with a wider firing arc to compensate for the slower turn rate in Siege Mode.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
12-29-2010, 01:35 AM
Mmm, you guys do realize that by saying the Guramba is inferior to the Raptor, is saying the Raptor is also superior (however slightly) to the Fleet Escort?

As for myself

I <3 my Guramba

Also, Im not completely convinced, but I believe switching modes breaks tractorlocks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
12-29-2010, 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Mmm, you guys do realize that by saying the Guramba is inferior to the Raptor, is saying the Raptor is also superior (however slightly) to the Fleet Escort?
My evaluation of the gurumba on tribble was:
+ it spins.
+ it looks very cool.
+++ it has an extremely useful ensign/engineering BO slot
~ it does something funky, but not particularly clear whether that's useful.
--- it does not have a cloak
--- it has slightly less hull than a raptor, with no obvious shielding advantage.
---------- it has 2 engineering consoles, and no turn bonus

Conclusion:
- in "escort mode" it sucks.
- in "siege mode" it's not clear that it does anything useful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
12-29-2010, 03:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splutter
My evaluation of the gurumba on tribble was:
+ it spins.
+ it looks very cool.
+++ it has an extremely useful ensign/engineering BO slot
~ it does something funky, but not particularly clear whether that's useful.
--- it does not have a cloak
--- it has slightly less hull than a raptor, with no obvious shielding advantage.
---------- it has 2 engineering consoles, and no turn bonus

Conclusion:
- in "escort mode" it sucks.
- in "siege mode" it's not clear that it does anything useful.
So.. 1 Enginineering console is the difference between

"Better than Raptor"

and

"Sucks"

Its more or less identical to a Fleet Escort (and we all remember how many KDF players were all upset about the Raptors useless ensign slot, and how the Fed escorts were FAR superior) except for that one console.

So.. Again

If you say the Raptor is superior to the Guramba, then youre also saying the Raptor is superior to the Fleet Escort.. And since few people fly Raptors (since BOPs are the better ship) - So, youre actually indirectly suggesting the BOP is superior to any Fed escort?

Lets try using your balance sheet above for a comparison between the Assault Cruiser and the Vor'Cha

+ it looks very cool.
++ it has an useful ensign/tactical BO slot
----- it does not have a cloak
-------------- it cannot equip cannons, and have very low turn rate

Obvious strawman arguements are obvious.

Guramba is fine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
12-29-2010, 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
So.. 1 Enginineering console is the difference between

"Better than Raptor"
and
"Sucks"
For me, yes (whether it would be 'better' depends on how you rate cloaking vs the engineering BO - I suspect in arena cloak is better, and in C&H the engineering BO is preferable).

For me:
- 1 engineering console is +35% base turn rate. In an escort dogfight that means you get guns on target more often than your opponent does.
- 1 engineering console is +X% hull resists. Given the poor hull healing available to the escort 'natively', hull resists are worth more than on a ship with excess hull healing.
- 1 engineering console is a +105% eps console. If you happen to use BO3, that's a very good thing .

I can't speak for everyone, just me. In my hands, the gumbo is inferior to the raptor entirely because of the missing engineering console.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Its more or less identical to a Fleet Escort (and we all remember how many KDF players were all upset about the Raptors useless ensign slot, and how the Fed escorts were FAR superior) except for that one console.
I have the memory of a sieve, and I went awol a month after release - I don't really know what's changed between the ships.

In today's pvp, the fleet escort is a ship I'd like to have the option of flying as a klink. (the defiant is more popular, but fleet escorts are surprisingly tough - and losing my 3rd copy of TAC team would be a good thing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
If you say the Raptor is superior to the Guramba, then youre also saying the Raptor is superior to the Fleet Escort.. And since few people fly Raptors (since BOPs are the better ship) - So, youre actually indirectly suggesting the BOP is superior to any Fed escort?
/shrug. I don't fly a bop, but my raptor certainly outdamages the vast majority of bops without even trying. (my post elsewhere suggested 'toning down' the bop but was not well received).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
12-29-2010, 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splutter
For me, yes (whether it would be 'better' depends on how you rate cloaking vs the engineering BO - I suspect in arena cloak is better, and in C&H the engineering BO is preferable).

For me:
- 1 engineering console is +35% base turn rate. In an escort dogfight that means you get guns on target more often than your opponent does.
- 1 engineering console is +X% hull resists. Given the poor hull healing available to the escort 'natively', hull resists are worth more than on a ship with excess hull healing.
- 1 engineering console is a +105% eps console. If you happen to use BO3, that's a very good thing .

I can't speak for everyone, just me. In my hands, the gumbo is inferior to the raptor entirely because of the missing engineering console.



I have the memory of a sieve, and I went awol a month after release - I don't really know what's changed between the ships.

In today's pvp, the fleet escort is a ship I'd like to have the option of flying as a klink. (the defiant is more popular, but fleet escorts are surprisingly tough - and losing my 3rd copy of TAC team would be a good thing).



/shrug. I don't fly a bop, but my raptor certainly outdamages the vast majority of bops without even trying. (my post elsewhere suggested 'toning down' the bop but was not well received).
TBH, "toning down" will never be well recieved.. The reason you outdamage the BOPs is because they are set up for a stun-spike, while you spike "normally"..

You have Cmd/LtC/En Tac while they use Cmd Tac, LtC/Lt Sci, Lt Eng
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
12-29-2010, 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staalker View Post
I hear the ship is a menace, and if what I have heard/seen is accurate then people are actually paying 20 bucks for an in-game advantage. That, to me, is a big no-no. Cosmetics or things that don't give anyone an upperhand are fine. But how well you can do in-game should never be defined by how much you can spend. Even if I can afford to buy advantages, it ruins the game to make it so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axterix
I've yet to hear anyone say that. What I have heard, and it matches my experience, is that it is subpar to the Raptor. Not by much, but worse. I have heard one person say it is effective when used in a pre-built group based around using it, but even that person didn't claim it was better than Raptors, just not worse in such a situation. For PUGs, the same player said definitely worse.

Beyond that, you get the occasional person mentioning big hits with the Javelin, but they typically fail to take into account lost DPS from the time during the charge animation and the subsequent leaving of siege mode, as well as DPS lost due to mounting lower DPS weapons with a wider firing arc to compensate for the slower turn rate in Siege Mode.
Its hardly a menace or an advantage that can be bought from the C-store.
Its fun to fly but its not near good enough to cry OP. Hell, I couldn't even successfully complete the Tralleius Satelitte mission in EESB with this ship and thats a simple mission that Iv'e done several times before without error.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
12-29-2010, 10:18 AM
The sense of entitlement I get from many of the forum users here never ceases to amaze me...and I used to work on cars that cost more money than we'll ever see in a lifetime.

No notification? As was previously mentioned, Dstahl has been out sick. Like the rest of us, he is human, and things like this happen. Add to this the fact that, like everyone, he has a boss, and you begin to realize that all the raging here simply proves that no one on these forums has the entire picture. So, please, stop acting like you do, and please stop assuming the worst when you have no idea what's going on.

Furthermore, you can sit there and rage, rant, scream, and generally throw temper tantrums, but ultimately, you have only yourself to blame if you bought the ship without trying it, then ended up not liking it. The test server is free to use, so if $20 is a lot of money to you, be a smart consumer. Try it first, and if you don't like it, don't buy it.

That said, $20. Wow. That's less money than I spend each month filling my bike with gas, and it gets almost 60mpg average. $20 really is not a vast sum of money. If you're really that broke, you probably shouldn't be spending 20 bucks on video-game stuff, or even 10 bucks if it were cheaper. I fail to see how 10 bucks is that big a difference.

Long story short, if you don't like it, don't buy it. But please spare us the temper tantrums; it's something we could all do without. If you want to change things in the game, positive reinforcement and genuine constructive criticism will get you much further.

Just my 2 Energy Credits.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
12-29-2010, 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Mmm, you guys do realize that by saying the Guramba is inferior to the Raptor, is saying the Raptor is also superior (however slightly) to the Fleet Escort?
*shrug*

That is irrelevant. Doubly so since you won't find people saying Raptors are overpowered.

I can tell you, however, that the Guramba is also slightly inferior to the T5 Escorts. And that for PvE, I'd rate the Fleet Escort as being superior to the Raptor, though for PvP, I'd rather have access to cloak.

Quote:
As for myself

I <3 my Guramba
I like mine as well. And, for that matter, there are people that like their Gal-Xs.

However, even though I like it, I still believe it is slightly weaker than is should be. Close, but not quite there. The ship needs to turn better in siege mode than it does (though still worse than normal), but should have a self snare so as to keep the downside about the same. This would be a change in the nature of the penalty, not the overall amount of it. The Javelin attack needs a shorter charge animation, so that it is worth using in PvE and more useful in PvP.

Overall, close, but not quite there. And if you are charging $25 for something, it had better be there (and this applies to the Gal X as well, for those Fed side). And should probably have an additional out of combat, quality of life bonus as well, but I'm willing to let that slide for coolness factor.

Quote:
Also, Im not completely convinced, but I believe switching modes breaks tractorlocks.
If it does, that would be a bug in all likelihood. Wouldn't be the only one, there's a couple of other siege mode related bugs I've found, though not ones the use of which would qualify as exploiting.

Edit: just tested it. Got tractor beamed by a Romulan ship, changed out of siege mode. Was still tractored. So going to say no, it does not.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:33 AM.