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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 131
01-09-2011, 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
A few days ago I saw a thread asking what people want to see in the game in 2011. Your reply was Integrity. Do you think you are going to see that this year? Is there hope for your cause?
Probably not. But, frankly, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop being antagonistic towards them. Because, by lying to me, they ****ed me off. Maybe I'll eventually get bored. It's too bad that the game actually occasionally has fits and starts of improvement (despite them tending to be brief and suffering from a dire lack of meaningful follow-through), because I keep hoping things will actually change and then they don't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 132
01-09-2011, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maledicus
Exactly.



Let me explain on this one, and it is just a personal opinion, so there is only my own and no common logic included.

As is see it the monthly subscriber fee one has to pay to play MMORPGs hasn't changed alot in the last 10 years. It may be enough money if you are Blizzard with a subscriber base of millions of ppl, not to mention the millions of game boxes they sell. But as we can see it is not enough for the smaller MMO dev-teams / publishers, whenever a small new MMO starts we can see them struggle because of the development costs what leads to lower quality and lesser content than the big ones have. With STO we may have a special case because they have alot of copyright costs.

So one day i decided for myself that i'm willing to accept features like the c-store to generate more income for small MMO-teams like Cryptic, because they need this money to create new content and such .. but somewhere , in my opinion , they have to draw the line .. as i explained there was the Gal-X and it was the great excemption to me. With the pricing of the Guramaba they have lost the balance in the pricing in my very own opinion. I personaly think that 1200cp for a new ship is where i draw the line of balance. It's also expensive, but we have seen Cryptic put alot of work into STO in the last year and so i have the feeling that i see where my money is going. BUT $25 for another ship on the c-store -- never.
Oh yeah I get that, I don't mind most of the pricing in the store. And my main problem with ship prices is that they can't be worth the money they charge or it would unbalance the game. If they made a ship that had abilities that were worth 25 bucks it wouldn't be right to buy it. And since it's not worth 25 bucks then it's not right for me to buy it. I draw the line at 800 points right now. Getting those different T1 ships has made the game more enjoyable for me as I make a lot different characters for some reason.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 133
01-09-2011, 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
Well what is also common practice is selling those pre order items to the rest of the player base a few months after launch. No they did not specifically say that those items would end up for sale or not. But at launch I assumed like every other game that I've played that had pre order items they would go up for sale, and that the C-store would be the place they went up for sale. Now what does that equal? Come on now! Say it with me!


GAME ALTERING ITEMS IN THE C-STORE!!!


YAY!!! Oh...wow...it was a long trip, but we got there in once piece kids.
Red matter -- not available in cstore (yet)
Defense Turret -- not available in cstore (yet)
Borg BO -- Effecient Saurian is more or less equivelent and though a crapshoot, is available ingame

The Rainbow tribble can be almost replicated through breeding

Borg and Undine tribbles should not be in the CStore due to the original nature of acquisition but that was bound to happen.

Most of the rest of the pre-order crap has no ingame effect and of those that do, there is an alternative method of gaining their equivelent ingame. The only two items that I can think of that have an ingame effect are the red matter and the turret which are not available in the CStore and have no equivelents ingame.

I really do fail to see your point on this as there are alternatives. There is no equal to the Garumba or some of the other ships they stick in the CStore, even the Enterprise pack. When I got the Enterprise pack, I was not aware of the tractor beam which would be a really important ingame effect were it not a T0 ship and when I got the excelsior, I wasn't aware that the T5 variant was not available by ingame means.

Just because I got snookered, doesn't mean that I feel that the CStore has been run ethically, quite the opposite. I am not entirely certain what your point is but sometimes you seem to rail against the CStore and sometimes defend it and the inconsistency of the arguments is honestly getting quite confusing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 134
01-09-2011, 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethanatos View Post
Red matter -- not available in cstore (yet)
Defense Turret -- not available in cstore (yet)
Borg BO -- Effecient Saurian is more or less equivelent and though a crapshoot, is available ingame

The Rainbow tribble can be almost replicated through breeding
How do you get the Defense Turret? and is it any good?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 135
01-09-2011, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimevalAtom View Post
How do you get the Defense Turret? and is it any good?
Same as all that stuff, buy the right version.

It is an okay item. 45 plasma damage, shoots at the closest thing, max range of 3k. But it goes in a tactical console slot, which makes it not really worth using, other than for convenience against enemy groups that use destructible torps or tricobalt mines.

It really should be a device, not a console.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 136
01-10-2011, 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethanatos View Post
I am not entirely certain what your point is but sometimes you seem to rail against the CStore and sometimes defend it and the inconsistency of the arguments is honestly getting quite confusing.
Ok then read this slowly and see if you can follow as my position has not changed.

The C-Store is now just how I expected it would be when I first started playing the game. Though I did think more skins might be available by now.

I don't see a problem with it as it is now.

There are things I won't buy because I don't think they are worth the price though I would like to have them if they cost less.

I know other people will pay for items I think are to expensive and that is their right.

Reading the description of items before you buy them can keep you from getting "snookered".

I think buying into a game with micro transactions when you are offended by micro transactions is foolish.

Now as for the pre orders here's the Borg BO description.
"Rescued from the Borg, this officer will bring her experience as a Borg drone to your Bridge Crew! Federation Liberated Borg Bridge Officers have the following traits: Borg Nanites (10% bonus to regeneration and shield regeneration), Efficient (Bonus to Efficiency), Resilient (5% bonus to Physical and Energy damage resistance) and Borg Neural Blast (short-range neural hold power). Note: Purchase of this option unlocks it for all Federation characters on an account."

As far as I'm aware a Saurian does not have borg nanites or borg neural blast. And even if they did you get this BO at the start of the game. The Saurian you have to wait 'till endgame to take your crap shoot on weather or not you get it. I've leveled 4 or 5 characters and haven't gotten one so I think the odds are pretty low.

Then there is the TOS Enterprise.
"The classic Federation starship of the 23rd century can now be yours! This Tier 1 cruiser has a 20% boost to hit points, an extra Engineering console slot and TOS-style blue phasers that increase in effectiveness based on your level. Note: Purchase of this starship unlocks it for every Federation character on an account."

Those sound like game altering effects to me.

The original point in all this was that the nature of pre orders and how they tend to end up being sold to player bases a few months after launch led me to believe there would be game altering items in the store so I knew what I was getting into at the start. As everyone else should have. One could argue the effect of the pre order items are minor but to do so would ignore that the same argument could be made for the ships in the store now that upset so many people.

I did not think cryptic's statements about game altering items not being in the store unless there was an in game way to get them was a lie. I just figured they were talking about over powered items. And they didn't see things like console slots or BO slots as game altering even though most people on the forums do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 137
01-10-2011, 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
Ok then read this slowly and see if you can follow as my position has not changed.

The C-Store is now just how I expected it would be when I first started playing the game. Though I did think more skins might be available by now.

I don't see a problem with it as it is now.

There are things I won't buy because I don't think they are worth the price though I would like to have them if they cost less.

I know other people will pay for items I think are to expensive and that is their right.

Reading the description of items before you buy them can keep you from getting "snookered".

I think buying into a game with micro transactions when you are offended by micro transactions is foolish.

Now as for the pre orders here's the Borg BO description.
"Rescued from the Borg, this officer will bring her experience as a Borg drone to your Bridge Crew! Federation Liberated Borg Bridge Officers have the following traits: Borg Nanites (10% bonus to regeneration and shield regeneration), Efficient (Bonus to Efficiency), Resilient (5% bonus to Physical and Energy damage resistance) and Borg Neural Blast (short-range neural hold power). Note: Purchase of this option unlocks it for all Federation characters on an account."

As far as I'm aware a Saurian does not have borg nanites or borg neural blast. And even if they did you get this BO at the start of the game. The Saurian you have to wait 'till endgame to take your crap shoot on weather or not you get it. I've leveled 4 or 5 characters and haven't gotten one so I think the odds are pretty low.

Then there is the TOS Enterprise.
"The classic Federation starship of the 23rd century can now be yours! This Tier 1 cruiser has a 20% boost to hit points, an extra Engineering console slot and TOS-style blue phasers that increase in effectiveness based on your level. Note: Purchase of this starship unlocks it for every Federation character on an account."

Those sound like game altering effects to me.

The original point in all this was that the nature of pre orders and how they tend to end up being sold to player bases a few months after launch led me to believe there would be game altering items in the store so I knew what I was getting into at the start. As everyone else should have. One could argue the effect of the pre order items are minor but to do so would ignore that the same argument could be made for the ships in the store now that upset so many people.

I did not think cryptic's statements about game altering items not being in the store unless there was an in game way to get them was a lie. I just figured they were talking about over powered items. And they didn't see things like console slots or BO slots as game altering even though most people on the forums do.
Unless they moved the Sauran, it is a green bo at ltcdr or cdr (can't remember which) and when I get them I tend to sell them on the exchange. Never seen my borg bo use neural blast and don't remember it from my Amazon box not saying it isn't there, the description says it is.

I am obviously not offended by microtransactions since I have bought a lot of crap off the CStore.

As far as the Enterprise pack and the Excelsior, those were my mistakes and I was just "fessing up" because I failed to read the descriptions well enough. Had I done so, I would not have bought the excelsior and would have seriously reconsidered the Enterprise pack though I do like the uniforms, I probably would have gotten it anyway to be honest.

When the CStore was initiated, I watched what happened in Champions until STO came out and kept an eye on their forums to see what would happen with our version of the CStore. Initially, CO had a debacle that was shouted down by their community for (I think) per-character items, not services, items. I reckoned that the same would happen here if marketing got froggy (I was wrong there too by the way). After that debacle things cleared up over there and the big man put the infamous post up that we are ALL sick to death of reading.

The problem with that post is that it should have set a tone for the entire CStore enterprise, I mean the BOSS said something and as soon as his back was turned, something else was done without repercussions. Now, we have a new boss that seems to have all the control over the CStore as a cat herder. Who's is at fault here? Certain things were put in print that were not followed through with and have never been retracted or restated and it's far too late to put that particular genie back in the bottle, so it gets ignored in the vain hope that it will simply go away.

I don't rail against the CStore, I pick my battles and that is one that is futile to even attempt. I do rail at the fact that in game effects are in the cstore with no in-game method of getting them. Even the Enterprise and TOS connie should probably be available ingame but even I am willing to let that pass since they are only really usable for a few days to a week dependant on playtime.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 138
01-10-2011, 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethanatos View Post
Unless they moved the Sauran, it is a green bo at ltcdr or cdr (can't remember which) and when I get them I tend to sell them on the exchange. Never seen my borg bo use neural blast and don't remember it from my Amazon box not saying it isn't there, the description says it is.
Now that you mention it, I do recall seeing one blue Saurian in the exchange once that had the efficient ability the rest were purple, and I've never had one of my own. That's starting to sound odd to me because you say "when ever you get them" that makes it sound like you get them a lot and my luck just sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethanatos View Post
I am obviously not offended by microtransactions since I have bought a lot of crap off the CStore.
You may not be but there was a point here where I was arguing with many more people then just you all seemingly with a slightly different reason for being mad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethanatos View Post
As far as the Enterprise pack and the Excelsior, those were my mistakes and I was just "fessing up" because I failed to read the descriptions well enough. Had I done so, I would not have bought the excelsior and would have seriously reconsidered the Enterprise pack though I do like the uniforms, I probably would have gotten it anyway to be honest.
I don't think either of those effects are large enough to get upset about. A T5 ship for sale with 10 weapon slots, now that would get me mad. I think that for twelve bucks the ship should do something different or it's just a skin and the other skins don't cost that much, but it may have cost them a lot more to make because it wasn't like that were making a new design they had to follow something existing and that can be harder. Note the Nebula, it was just a Galaxy kit bash in the shows and as such was easy to model for the game and there is a free option to get it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 139
01-10-2011, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
I don't think either of those effects are large enough to get upset about. A T5 ship for sale with 10 weapon slots, now that would get me mad. I think that for twelve bucks the ship should do something different or it's just a skin and the other skins don't cost that much, but it may have cost them a lot more to make because it wasn't like that were making a new design they had to follow something existing and that can be harder. Note the Nebula, it was just a Galaxy kit bash in the shows and as such was easy to model for the game and there is a free option to get it.
For me, it isn't the scale, it is the existence of things that were specifically denied at all. If the customers don't speak up about broken promises, we deserve what we get.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 140
01-11-2011, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethanatos View Post
For me, it isn't the scale, it is the existence of things that were specifically denied at all. If the customers don't speak up about broken promises, we deserve what we get.
And when you get right down to it. That's the debate in my mind. Are these things really game altering from cryptic's point of view? Yes to most of us a ship with different consoles makes for a different experience then the other ships. I think the argument could made that what they had in mind was something more like the gun you get as a reward in the dividian missions, the proton prototype. Something that would give you an advantage in PvP. And the core of the statement is the they won't be selling an advantage in the C-Store. I know it's shaky ground trying to be a mind reader or to guess intent. But I do think if you look at what is for sale with that mindset, the statement of no game altering items in the store still holds true.

I understand that for many people that view maybe seem like splitting hairs. Try and imagine if the Phaser Lance on the Galaxy X could really punch a hole clean through a ships hull for one shot kills like it does in the show. That sounds more like game altering to me then the light show it puts on now does.
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