Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
12-28-2010, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USSZenica
My Defiant R does ok but I have not heard nor had any experience with any configuration I have tried in any ship
I use that enabled me to have a "One Shot Kill" or an "I Win" button like the Klingons have done, time and time again in PvP.
When I look at the PvP end scores, there is always one resounding constant, nearly every Fed player will have been blown up at least once, most likely multiple times (yes, there is the rare occasion where one or two didn't) and yet the Klingon side will have few ships that suffered that fate and many more than never did, not even once. Factor in the "points" and one can see things are not balanced.

Yes, I have heard the arguments that the Klingons have been PvP'ng since day one and that the Feds are disorganized.
While both are very true, the ratio of wins, points and deaths per match is indicative of something else in addition to Fed
disorganization and Klingon PvP superiority.

When a BOP can eliminate a Starcruiser in 4 seconds with what looks like a one shot kill, the game is not so balanced as crptic and the klingon faction want everyone to believe.
If a BOP can eliminate a Starcruiser in 4 seconds, then the Star Cruiser is "doin it wrong".

I got ambushed twice last night in Ker'rat. I had just taken out a sphere the first time, and suddenly I'm getting hit from behind. Engines disabled, and shields are failing as a tractor beam locks on. I pop polarize hull, EPtS, Sci-Team ...swing around, pop HYT3 and CRP3, and he's dead in only a few seconds..

A couple hours later, same thing happens, except this guy drops Tyken's rift on me. But...I still killed him. And here's the kicker...I'm flying a Tactical Escort Retrofit. So if I can survive hit-and-run tactics of the Klingons...why can't you?

But...here's something to consider: How was the Klingon specced, and how was the Star Cruiser captain specced? If he was specced wrong, then his survivability is going to be a lot lower.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
12-28-2010, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NemoSD
WTF mate applies best here...

Star Trek could not even remain consistent with its own canon in the SAME EPISODE, much less across five series, and 10 movies. The Soft Canon books and comic books have even made the whole canon issue more murky and worse. And do not put words in my mouth. Only one series I actually watched, and that was DS9 because it was the only series that made me care about the characters instead of the asinine techno-babble and the 'vision.'

Also, who the frack are you to call people a fanboy as an insult? You are spouting off over and over about how Feds should kick ass in PvP, and have the uber awesome ships of doom because it is "canon." You go on and on about how ships are not the same as they were on screen, and then you make a snide comment about 'owning' someone because you know the source material better.

You my friend, are a textbook fanboy.

PS: What the frack does Aliens have to do with Star Trek?
The core of Star Trek remained concistent between the 3 series and the movies. You disagree? fine.
I do not think of "comics" and "cartoons" as Star Trek, despite the names associated with either.
You do? Also fine. Also explains your acceptance of this game.

I have not once stated the Feds should perform any differently in PvP, I am simply questioning WHY each factions performance is where it is. I am not alone in questioning this area of the game.

I have a memory for certain scenes or lines in Star Trek because I enjoyed the show. I am neither a fanboy nor willing to spout something off without first checking, unlike some.

ALIENS was merely a reference and it was fresh in my mind from being on TV at the time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
If a BOP can eliminate a Starcruiser in 4 seconds, then the Star Cruiser is "doin it wrong".

I got ambushed twice last night in Ker'rat. I had just taken out a sphere the first time, and suddenly I'm getting hit from behind. Engines disabled, and shields are failing as a tractor beam locks on. I pop polarize hull, EPtS, Sci-Team ...swing around, pop HYT3 and CRP3, and he's dead in only a few seconds..

A couple hours later, same thing happens, except this guy drops Tyken's rift on me. But...I still killed him. And here's the kicker...I'm flying a Tactical Escort Retrofit. So if I can survive hit-and-run tactics of the Klingons...why can't you?

But...here's something to consider: How was the Klingon specced, and how was the Star Cruiser captain specced? If he was specced wrong, then his survivability is going to be a lot lower.

I do not know how the Starcruiser was spec'd nor do I know how that BOP was either. I don't even know which BOP it was. I was a bit busy at the time to focus on those details, had my own issues to deal with.

I do perfectly fine in my Defiant R, thanks to some very useful sugestions from forum members but sill, when I see Starcruisers and Science ships blown away so quickly, I have to wonder why/how. In my ship, I expect it, but when the ship that *should* be healing me is eliminated so quicly, one has to wonder.

I've gone into Ker'rat before, its a calm version of PvP. Less Klingons, less fighters clogging up the screen and more breathing room. Sure, there are Borg everywhere but they are easy to avoid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
12-28-2010, 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USSZenica
Maybe I have misunderstood things here, answer one question that will clarify things...
You do nothing to clarify your argument. Instead you fill your post with red herrings and a fundamental lack of understanding.

You say you're not happy that Cryptic is using its own "metrics" to filter ST. Maybe they are trying to distill what they can into a balanced game? To say that specific gameplay elements such as PvP and diplomacy have been "altered" is laughable. Combat was never a primary element of ST until DS9 began using it as a plot tool, and then as an argument for the necessity of war in asserting morality over others. Diplomacy wasn't a gameplay element in STO until recently, and is as close as any ST game has gotten to it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Diplomacy system was improved within the next year.

Regarding uniforms: I don't know if you noticed, but the costumes in ST changed quite a bit over time. If the uniforms didn't change over the 34 years from the end of DS9 to STO I would have been upset. Actually, I feel I designed some pretty good uniforms from the options we have.

Also, canon is a meaningless word in and of itself. "That word, canon, has been used a lot and is often the subject of scorn by fanboys but the meaning is simple. It is the core spirit that made Star Trek what is was, and why many of us watched it week after week, year after year," is a misleading and, from the looks of it, completely nonsensical statement. Canon is not the "core spirit" of anything, it is the summation of everything that was incorporated into ST. Canon is that Riker has a "twin brother" that really isn't a twin brother. Canon is not the purpose to inspire and enlighten that Roddenberry infused into his shows.

Do I think that Cryptic made the best ST game they could? I don't know, but i do know that the game is getting better. Since I've been a staunch and outspoken (but certainly not one of the worst) critic of this game and many of its key elements, you should take that statement for what it is.

That said, escorts have not been nerfed from what the series has shown one do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NemoSD
PS: What the frak does Aliens have to do with Star Trek?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
12-28-2010, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP3CTREnyc
You do nothing to clarify your argument. Instead you fill your post with red herrings and a fundamental lack of understanding.

You say you're not happy that Cryptic is using its own "metrics" to filter ST. Maybe they are trying to distill what they can into a balanced game? To say that specific gameplay elements such as PvP and diplomacy have been "altered" is laughable. Combat was never a primary element of ST until DS9 began using it as a plot tool, and then as an argument for the necessity of war in asserting morality over others. Diplomacy wasn't a gameplay element in STO until recently, and is as close as any ST game has gotten to it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Diplomacy system was improved within the next year.

Regarding uniforms: I don't know if you noticed, but the costumes in ST changed quite a bit over time. If the uniforms didn't change over the 34 years from the end of DS9 to STO I would have been upset. Actually, I feel I designed some pretty good uniforms from the options we have.

Also, canon is a meaningless word in and of itself. "That word, canon, has been used a lot and is often the subject of scorn by fanboys but the meaning is simple. It is the core spirit that made Star Trek what is was, and why many of us watched it week after week, year after year," is a misleading and, from the looks of it, completely nonsensical statement. Canon is not the "core spirit" of anything, it is the summation of everything that was incorporated into ST. Canon is that Riker has a "twin brother" that really isn't a twin brother. Canon is not the purpose to inspire and enlighten that Roddenberry infused into his shows.

Do I think that Cryptic made the best ST game they could? I don't know, but i do know that the game is getting better. Since I've been a staunch and outspoken (but certainly not one of the worst) critic of this game and many of its key elements, you should take that statement for what it is.

That said, escorts have not been nerfed from what the series has shown one do.
Red herring? what was I deflecting away from? My opinion! Good one.

Look, these forums aren't personal between players so no need to take it that way.

I don't like the game as much as some, but more than others. I have an opinion in conflict with yours but in symetry with someone elses. I expressed my view and I've read yours. I will continue to play the game because its free at this point and continue voicing my objections where I feel the need.

I am sure we share one thing in common, a desire to see STO improve.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
12-28-2010, 11:57 AM
And what has this recurring arguement about canon got to do with the OP's subject anyway?

Drop it guys, everyone will always have their own opinion of the TV series and few will ever agree about it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
12-28-2010, 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild-Fox
I came into the game thinking that escorts, cruisers, science vessels would reflect the capabilities of their series counterparts...

The Escort not only got shafted in that respect but also got shafted in the fact that while science and cruiser both have 2 refits to choose from escorts get shoved into the defiant rip off.

If you look at the chart escorts are missing 2 ships from their tree. Where is the advanced heavy escort?
Or the Advanced Escort Refit? Where is my Multi vector assault mode? The Defiant class bites for one main reason when you decloak yeah you get a little bonus defense to make up for the fact that you have no shields. you shields have to recharge from 0 that takes 20 seconds, your defense doesn't last that long. you come out of cloak your a sitting duck waiting for the shotgun.

Thanks STO you took some of the most advanced and tide turning ships in the series the weakest and most useless ships in the game then short changed us on the number of ships to choose from on top of it.
the original post regarded the ineffectiveness of the Escort in STO. He was wrong about numerous things, to include the size of the Defiant and the effectiveness of the Def-R in PvP. While I agree that there is a lack of escort refits in-game, I and many others in this thread didn't feel it was a significant point.

You, however, decided to turn this thread into an argument on canon and are completely unwilling or incapable of understanding that much of the technology in ST was used for plot and not for realistic interpretation of function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USSZenica
...If that is the case, then we can not ever see eye to eye because our starting points vary too wildly. The dichotomy of our expectations and anticipations means that we're looking at this game from opposite ends.

I wanted a game that mirrored the IP as close as possible, as has been done before with non MMO titles.
I am not happy that so many IP metrics are being filtered through crptic's vision over that of the viewer base
(never mind canon).

Everything from uniforms to ships to "diplomacy" have all been dramatically altered from canon into something crptic is passing off as Star Trek. That word, canon, has been used a lot and is often the subject of scorn by fanboys but the meaning is simple. It is the core spirit that made Star Trek what is was, and why many of us watched it week after week, year after year.

TNG aired 2 years after ALIENS was released and was followed by two other series, all of which built on the foundation of what I was hoping this game would continue with. Anyone that thinks crptic achieved this is playing a game that they can fully enjoy, I am not one of those people.
You started off well with this post, but you are deflecting away from the point of this thread: the escort class being "shafted." I am not taking your posts personally, but it seems that in posts like these you seek to antagonize the community, particularly when you call people "fanboys."

While both of us may want to see this game improve, I wish it to do so with constructive criticism and a degree of respect shown to other players. I don't appreciate when people hijack a thread where people are discussing whether a ship class has too much or not enough ability and turn it into an accusatory panel where those who think STO got something right are fanboys and those who agree with you are true ST fans.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
12-28-2010, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USSZenica
The core of Star Trek remained concistent between the 3 series and the movies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by USSZenica
I am neither a fanboy nor willing to spout something off without first checking, unlike some..
Seriously?

TOS
TNG
DS9
Voyager
Enterprise....

Llearn to count dude.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
12-28-2010, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP3CTREnyc
I don't appreciate when people hijack a thread where people are discussing whether a ship class has too much or not enough ability and turn it into an accusatory panel where those who think STO got something right are fanboys and those who agree with you are true ST fans.
Thats his MO I'm afraid. Check out his post history. Its one nerd-rage post after another, after another, after another. I'm not 100% sure he means to come off that way all the time but since he does, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt anymore.

(sorry about the psuedo-jack)

Whoa...10 minutes after I posted this he got tagged by the Ban Hammer. Wonder if that will improve his cheery disposition?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
12-28-2010, 12:36 PM
And here I was dying to know why is crptic and not cryptic every single time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
12-28-2010, 12:38 PM
Anyway, back on topic, I honestly don't think escorts are shafted at all, its just they require a tad more skill to use very effectively than the cruisers do. (By very effectively I mean actually pull off 'pops' regularly, all three ships are easy to use well if you know what you are doing)
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