Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-27-2010, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
No game that has PvP is going to allow a one-shot weapon like that into play. The key word for all games with PvP is balance.
So, let's review.

The Defiant Refit can't be like its on camera version (no "battle cloak")
The Galaxy X can't be like its on camera version (no spinal lance, no "battle" cloak)
The standard Galaxy class can't have the phased cloak although the BOP is being allowed
a feature also only seen once.
The "Prometheus" can't be like its on camera version (no vector assault mode)

Neither Galaxy class or Escort Refit class ship is anywhere near as capable as the on camera version although this can be said of all Federation ships, in my opinion based on my experience.

All this yet they want to give us more broken ships like the Oberth.

I am not addressing klingon ships as I have no experience from which to form an opinion.

EDIT:

So by "balance" it means gimping the Federation faction? Clearly that is what crptic has done.
(I was tempted to put an A in there somewhere)
Neglecting to incorporate features those ships had on camera just so the game is balanced
is total BS. It is no ones fault that the show started and centered around the Federation.
It isn't anyone's blame that the shows primary characters were Starfleet personnel.
It is a natural extension of the preceding truths that Starfleet would have developed advanced technology to counter threats, also shown on camera. I would think crptic (again, I refrained from the use of the A key) has more "artistic ability" with the klingons given they were NOT the center piece on camera. The latest klingon ship is testament to this.

Gimping the Fed side is just crptic BS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-27-2010, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
No game that has PvP is going to allow a one-shot weapon like that into play.
halo? snipers, lots of pvp mmos have 1 shot kills, it's just better in games with hiding or the ability to avoid being hit
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-27-2010, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USSZenica
So, let's review.

The Defiant Refit can't be like its on camera version (no "battle cloak")
The Galaxy X can't be like its on camera version (no spinal lance, no "battle" cloak)
The standard Galaxy class can't have the phased cloak although the BOP is being allowed
a feature also only seen once.
The "Prometheus" can't be like its on camera version (no vector assault mode)

Neither Galaxy class or Escort Refit class ship is anywhere near as capable as the on camera version although this can be said of all Federation ships, in my opinion based on my experience.

All this yet they want to give us more broken ships like the Oberth.

I am not addressing klingon ships as I have no experience from which to form an opinion.
Cruisers/BoP's are capable of cloaking in and out of combat - cannon supports this - the battlecloak was cryptic's method to balance cloaking in game.

If your referring to the B'rels Advanced Cloak - it does not operate as it does in the movie.

Despite all this - here's some helpful advice - if you want this game to be more canon - you would have a better chance getting acting lessons and audition for the next star trek series or movie.

Goto love Plot Weapons and Armor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-27-2010, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USSZenica
So, let's review.

The Defiant Refit can't be like its on camera version (no "battle cloak")
The Galaxy X can't be like its on camera version (no spinal lance, no "battle" cloak)
The standard Galaxy class can't have the phased cloak although the BOP is being allowed
a feature also only seen once.
The "Prometheus" can't be like its on camera version (no vector assault mode)

Neither Galaxy class or Escort Refit class ship is anywhere near as capable as the on camera version although this can be said of all Federation ships, in my opinion based on my experience.

All this yet they want to give us more broken ships like the Oberth.

I am not addressing klingon ships as I have no experience from which to form an opinion.
Let me guess... this is your first MMO? Single-player games can do things that multiplayer games can't. Why? Because they only have to be balanced for 1 player.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-27-2010, 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpieri View Post
Cruisers/BoP's are capable of cloaking in and out of combat - cannon supports this - the battlecloak was cryptic's method to balance cloaking in game.

If your referring to the B'rels Advanced Cloak - it does not operate as it does in the movie.

Despite all this - here's some helpful advice - if you want this game to be more canon - you would have a better chance getting acting lessons and audition for the next star trek series or movie.

Goto love Plot Weapons and Armor.
Feds cannot cloak in and out of combat unless you consider running away to cloak "in combat".
In what ever limited form the BOP is like the movie version, limited exceeds not at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
Let me guess... this is your first MMO? Single-player games can do things that multiplayer games can't. Why? Because they only have to be balanced for 1 player.
Yes it is.

So by "balance" it means gimping the Federation faction? Clearly that is what crptic has done.
(I was tempted to put an A in there somewhere)
Neglecting to incorporate features those ships had on camera just so the game is balanced
is total BS. It is no ones fault that the show started and centered around the Federation.
It isn't anyone's blame that the shows primary characters were Starfleet personnel.
It is a natural extension of the preceding truths that Starfleet would have developed advanced technology to counter threats, also shown on camera. I would think crptic (again, I refrained from the use of the A key) has more "artistic ability" with the klingons given they were NOT the center piece on camera. The latest klingon ship is testament to this. I say, let them run wild with the klingons but put the Fed in the game, as close as possible to how it was represented on camera. I understand some things will be a limitation of this being a game vs a studio produced television show but so far, its just gimping.

Gimping the Fed side is just crptic BS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-27-2010, 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USSZenica
Yes it is.

So by "balance" it means gimping the Federation faction? Clearly that is what crptic has done.
(I was tempted to put an A in there somewhere)
Neglecting to incorporate features those ships had on camera just so the game is balanced
is total BS. It is no ones fault that the show started and centered around the Federation.
It isn't anyone's blame that the shows primary characters were Starfleet personnel.
It is a natural extension of the preceding truths that Starfleet would have developed advanced technology to counter threats, also shown on camera. I would think crptic (again, I refrained from the use of the A key) has more "artistic ability" with the klingons given they were NOT the center piece on camera. The latest klingon ship is testament to this.

Gimping the Fed side is just crptic BS.
In MMOs with PvP you can't have an "I Win" item. If Defiant always won in the game everyone would simply play the Defiant. It's just that simple. No one would gimp themselves by playing a lesser ship. People are competitive and the game doesn't have directors and writers telling players how to do something. Writer's Fiat controls all of Trek. That works fine in single-player games but it completely fails in MMOs. As you play more MMOs in your life you're learn this.

I'm not going to go into the whole "Feds are gimpled" thing again. I though after all those people explained to you how to build your ship you were over that. I guess you just need more practice, though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-27-2010, 02:40 PM
To get back on target:
I have to say yes to a Gal-X redo it needs help bad. as it stands now the ship is a t4 trying to fight in a t5 world.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-27-2010, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
In MMOs with PvP you can't have an "I Win" item. If Defiant always won in the game everyone would simply play the Defiant. It's just that simple. No one would gimp themselves by playing a lesser ship. People are competitive and the game doesn't have directors and writers telling players how to do something. It's just that simple. Writer's Fiat controls off of Trek. That works fine in single-player games but it completely fails in MMOs. As you play more MMOs in your life you're learn this.

I'm not going to go into the whole "Feds are gimpled" thing again. I though after all those people explained to you how to build your ship you were over that. I guess you just need more practice, though.
By no means is having the Defiant and Galaxy X cloak as they should an "I WIN" button.
The spinal lance is not an "I WIN" button, at best, it might be an "I BLEW YOU UP, NOW GO RESPAWN"
button but as you pointed out, PvP isn't about one player so the remaining klingons would summarily finish that Galaxy X off since it would represent a significant threat. Thus bringing me to my next point, the survivability of that Captain would depend on his/her skills and choice of BOFFs.

No, it seems gimping is how they chose to make balance but as someone else said, now that the cat is out of the bag, what will happen when the klingon side gets the content and ship selection they deserve? It will most certainly put the game out of balance.

I for one, don't want or really like the crptic designed ships. I have played other games that took artistic license and created ship classes for star Trek but those were done tastefully, not hastily. I fear what crptic will do to "rebalance" the game once the klingons are brought to the level they should have been at one year ago.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-27-2010, 02:50 PM
Also keep in mind that by your estimation the Klingons have been gimped too - only the BoP can cloak in battle while the other Klingon ships have cloaks just like the Defiant and GalX, yet there is no canon justification for this, not to mention the fact that no one can enter warp while at red alert which they do constantly in the series - heck they fight while at warp.

In any case the shows are not internally consistent to begin with. (Not me complaining, simply a fact) The first time the feds fight the Dominion 1 Galaxy + 3 Runabouts get pwned by 3 attack ships. Now, even without shields a Galaxy would make short work of the paper tiger that is the attack ship. Later on even BoPs take on multiple attack ships without too much problem. The point is that the actual combat capabilities of all on screen ships fluctuated by what the story called for.

This is a game, and balance is needed. That doesn't mean either side is gimped, because in some ways they both are which makes them equal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-27-2010, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokesmith View Post
Also keep in mind that by your estimation the Klingons have been gimped too - only the BoP can cloak in battle while the other Klingon ships have cloaks just like the Defiant and GalX, yet there is no canon justification for this, not to mention the fact that no one can enter warp while at red alert which they do constantly in the series - heck they fight while at warp.

In any case the shows are not internally consistent to begin with. (Not me complaining, simply a fact) The first time the feds fight the Dominion 1 Galaxy + 3 Runabouts get pwned by 3 attack ships. Now, even without shields a Galaxy would make short work of the paper tiger that is the attack ship. Later on even BoPs take on multiple attack ships without too much problem. The point is that the actual combat capabilities of all on screen ships fluctuated by what the story called for.

This is a game, and balance is needed. That doesn't mean either side is gimped, because in some ways they both are which makes them equal.
I agree, all ships that can cloak should have what crptic calls the "battle cloak". All ships, all factions.
At the start, I said I cannot speak for the klingon side...

The episode you cited was the first time a Galaxy Class, The USS Odyssey, had encountered Dominion weapons or technology. Even rotating shield frequencies didn't stop the Dominion weapons from penetrating. This is the only time Dominion weapons presented such an obvious advantage. (save for the Breen energy dissipator)
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