Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Something popped into my head when reading through the 'ship problems' thread. We now have a Federation ship that can do a saucer separation, which might give some advantage in particular situations. Well, it popped into my head that, some years ago, I had a model kit for the Klingon Vor'cha. The info in that mentioned that the front section (the part just in front of the bridge) was a detachable module that could be replaced with others, depending on the mission, and, in extreme situations, be detached quickly, but permanently, in order to be used as a lifeboat.

Now, it occurs to me that, if the Klingons saw what the Federation can do with multi-vector ships, and were at least somewhat impressed, they might be of a mind to modify some Vor'chas so that this front module could separate, be a small, but powerful, combat vessel in its own right, then re-attach to the main section again - and you have a Klingon equivalent of the Galaxy refit, except this would be more like a prototype, not a refit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-29-2010, 11:14 AM
Sure, the Klingon should be allowed a ship with saucer separation, but only if the feds get access to carriers, battle cloaks, ships with multiple universal BO slots, dual cannons on all ships, etc. etc.

In terms of cannon, the federation had ships with separation capabilities (and they were the only ones to ever demonstrate such an ability) while the klingons had cloaking which the feds never used (for reasons that are no longer valid after romulus went boom).

If your going to take ship elements unique to the feds and give them to the klinks, than you have to do the reverse as well.

But this isn't going to happen. Why? Go to the pvp forums or fed cruiser forums and see the plethora of responses on fed carriers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
12-29-2010, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmidponk
Stuff
No. Nifty idea but 110% unsupported by canon and entirely unneeded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoOverdose View Post
Sure, the Klingon should be allowed a ship with saucer separation, but only if the feds get access to carriers, battle cloaks, ships with multiple universal BO slots, dual cannons on all ships, etc. etc.
1 for 20 exchange sounds fair to me! Just so long as you promise the KDF 'saucer separation' will be just as pointless as the Fed one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoOverdose View Post
...while the klingons had cloaking which the feds never used (for reasons that are no longer valid after romulus went boom).
Except for the fact that the Romulan Star Empire is still around and kicking, albeit under new management, and it's already been stated canon that the Federation is still honoring their treaty considering not using cloak, you're right on the money there.

Which is also why I heavily object to all the cloaked Defiants. Not that I care that Feds have cloak in general, but it contradicts what we've been told the Federation is doing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
12-29-2010, 11:48 AM
I wouldn't mind being able to swap out the pods on the vessel to change its function parameters, but I have no emotion one way or the other about saucer seperation for the KDF.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
12-29-2010, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoOverdose View Post
In terms of cannon, . . . while the klingons had cloaking which the feds never used (for reasons that are no longer valid after romulus went boom).

Canon begs to differ...

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Ent...ident_(episode) (USS Enterprise steals and installs a Romulan cloaking device)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Tr...he_Voyage_Home (technically a Klingon ship, but the Federation posessed it)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Pegasus_(episode) (experimental cloak developed by Starfleet Intelligence, used by the Enterprise-D)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/All_Good_Things (USS Enterprise-D refit used a cloaking device)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Sea...art_I_(episode) (USS Defiant was given a Romulan cloaking device)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Insurrection (Cloaked holo-ship)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Call_to_Arms_(episode) (Cloaking devices used on the self-replicating minefield)

Examples listed at: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cloak

Now, as you were referring to the Treaty of Algeron, the TOS and AGT references are invalid, as are the Defiant and Minefield references (since they were done with Romulan permission). However, the Pegasus and Insurrection references are valid examples of the Federation using cloaking devices while the Treaty of Algeron was still in effect.

But...either way, the point is...the Federation used cloaking devices. :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKatrina View Post
Except for the fact that the Romulan Star Empire is still around and kicking, albeit under new management, and it's already been stated canon that the Federation is still honoring their treaty considering not using cloak, you're right on the money there.

Which is also why I heavily object to all the cloaked Defiants. Not that I care that Feds have cloak in general, but it contradicts what we've been told the Federation is doing.
Meh, I get around that because my character works for Section 31, and they do what they want.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
12-29-2010, 04:09 PM
Well you know, my character works for Q, so I should get the snap my fingers power to kill you and your cloaked ship instantly. My point is, section 31 is discreet, you're obviously not so much.

Plus, the Pegasus incidnet happened right infront of a romulan warbird, which Picard promptly then reported and revealed via subspace message to Romulus.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
12-31-2010, 03:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKatrina View Post
No. Nifty idea but 110% unsupported by canon and entirely unneeded.



1 for 20 exchange sounds fair to me! Just so long as you promise the KDF 'saucer separation' will be just as pointless as the Fed one.



Except for the fact that the Romulan Star Empire is still around and kicking, albeit under new management, and it's already been stated canon that the Federation is still honoring their treaty considering not using cloak, you're right on the money there.
Sign

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKatrina View Post
Which is also why I heavily object to all the cloaked Defiants..
... and Galaxy Xs

[quote=Cuatela]Canon begs to differ...

Examples listed at: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cloak
/QUOTE]

Have you even watched ONE Episode/film you listed?


http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Ent...ident_(episode) (USS Enterprise steals and installs a Romulan cloaking device)

An undercover Operation where Kirk PRETENDS to get Rouge. The use IS illegal here! And they steal it to develop a way do detect the cloaked ships, not to use it on their own.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Tr...he_Voyage_Home (technically a Klingon ship, but the Federation posessed it)

The Federation posseses it? The FEDERATION didnt use it, Kirk did use it while he was, again, Rouge after STEALING a federation ship.
It has never been statet that the federation even pulled the ship out of the River.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Pegasus_(episode) (experimental cloak developed by Starfleet Intelligence, used by the Enterprise-D)

The whole Episode was about HOW ILLEGAL that f*** thing was.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/All_Good_Things (USS Enterprise-D refit used a cloaking device)

In that timeline the Romulan Empire did not exist any more = No treaty of Algeron.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Sea...art_I_(episode) (USS Defiant was given a Romulan cloaking device)

That was an exception made by even THOSE people, towards who the federation was bound to NOT use that technologie. That was stressed multible times during the series. And that ecpection was just for that one ship (not even for second renamed Sao-Paolo-Defaint). And it was intendet just for the use inside the Gamma quadrant (see the way of the warrior)

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Insurrection (Cloaked holo-ship)

Used in an all over illegal opration...

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Call_to_Arms_(episode) (Cloaking devices used on the self-replicating minefield)

That MIGHT work but we do not know how far the Treaty of Algeron goes, may be it just means cloaked ships. And may be the Klingons officially cloaked that mines, they where involved after all. And may be it was simply illegal too. Or the Bajorans.... it was a member Bajorans techical staff who developed that things.

Bottom line about the non-cloaking was anyway never the Algeron treaty, it was always the simple INTENTION that the writers didnt feel that the use of a cloak would fit into the way the federation acts. We can discuss canon facts until 2016 but the Intention is what is REALLY is about and that is the most important thing that a Star Trek game should stress on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
12-31-2010, 09:07 AM
The Klingons have an equivalent already. It is called a carrier.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
12-31-2010, 01:45 PM
Klingons would not be foolish enough to build large non-essential spaces into our ships, and pack them full of non-combatants.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
12-31-2010, 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Canon begs to differ...

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Ent...ident_(episode) (USS Enterprise steals and installs a Romulan cloaking device)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Tr...he_Voyage_Home (technically a Klingon ship, but the Federation posessed it)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Pegasus_(episode) (experimental cloak developed by Starfleet Intelligence, used by the Enterprise-D)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/All_Good_Things (USS Enterprise-D refit used a cloaking device)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Sea...art_I_(episode) (USS Defiant was given a Romulan cloaking device)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Insurrection (Cloaked holo-ship)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Call_to_Arms_(episode) (Cloaking devices used on the self-replicating minefield)

Examples listed at: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cloak

Now, as you were referring to the Treaty of Algeron, the TOS and AGT references are invalid, as are the Defiant and Minefield references (since they were done with Romulan permission). However, the Pegasus and Insurrection references are valid examples of the Federation using cloaking devices while the Treaty of Algeron was still in effect.

But...either way, the point is...the Federation used cloaking devices. :p



Meh, I get around that because my character works for Section 31, and they do what they want.
While the literal statement "The federation has never used cloaking devices" is incorrect, the premise is still appropriate. The Federation has never officially used cloaking devices, except for two Defiant-class starships seen in DS9, both of which used the cloaking device with permission from the Romulan Star Empire.

The Pegasus incident involved a prototype phase-cloak that was merely in the experimental phase and was a top secret project that likely would not have been put into mass production even if the experiment hadn't gone horrifically wrong, unless a full-blown war started up between the RSE and the UFP.

The Insurrection instance is also a case of Top Secret activity, as well as being quite illegal in general, even without the cloaking device.
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