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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-05-2011, 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedomrunning View Post
Its not so much they should give away expansions, I am saying that with everything included in the c-store, would cost as much as almost 4 expansions, if we want to experience EVERYTHING the game has to offer. Them offering free missions, is all well and good, but, when it comes to content, just for one year of playing, we would have to spend an extra $150 at a discounted price, just to get everything so we can experience it. They are saying that our subscription fee's are not good enough, we have to charge them for extras. If you played another MMO would you pay $150 for an expansion pack?
Actually about 3 Expansions (assuming to don't go insane and by a 'Collectors Edition' of an Expansion; then it's two Expansions (and I've been around since the EQ days of Expansions where SOE was getting to the point of releasing a new paid EQ expansion every 4 months)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-05-2011, 04:15 PM
People keep saying only 10 percent of the player base uses the forums. Now if this is true and I have no idea if it is or not I don't see what effect it could have showing outrage here could have. I making a lot of friends as of late by pointing out there is no reason to expect the C-Store policy to change. People just seem to not want to hear it.

Really think about it, cryptic by all accounts on here are greedy scum bags only looking to fleece us all and have no concern for what any player thinks. So the best idea any one can seem to come up with to fight this mind set is to come to the forums and tell this corporate monster what they think. To me that just doesn't add up.

The problem seems to be that the players who don't like the C-Store want to have their cake and eat it too as well. They want items to stop being added to the C-Store under the threat of masses leaving the game, but they aren't willing to stop playing. The effect is people who don't care keep buying stuff, the store remains profitable, and the forums light up from time to time with hatred. The result being a win win for cryptic.

You can say the forums represent a larger mindset but with cryptic patting themselves on the back over the polls on massively I don't think they it that way. The store isn't going anywhere. As long as they can make money on $25 ships they will keep making them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-05-2011, 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
People keep saying only 10 percent of the player base uses the forums. Now if this is true and I have no idea if it is or not I don't see what effect it could have showing outrage here could have. I making a lot of friends as of late by pointing out there is no reason to expect the C-Store policy to change. People just seem to not want to hear it.
If 7% of people say "X is stupid and we don't like it", and you only hear from 10% of people, chances are decent that about 70% of people don't care too much for x.

Quote:
Really think about it, cryptic by all accounts on here are greedy scum bags only looking to fleece us all and have no concern for what any player thinks. So the best idea any one can seem to come up with to fight this mind set is to come to the forums and tell this corporate monster what they think. To me that just doesn't add up.

The problem seems to be that the players who don't like the C-Store want to have their cake and eat it too as well. They want items to stop being added to the C-Store under the threat of masses leaving the game, but they aren't willing to stop playing. The effect is people who don't care keep buying stuff, the store remains profitable, and the forums light up from time to time with hatred. The result being a win win for cryptic.
True. On the other hand, the alternative isn't really something I (Or most people 'lighting up the forums') find appeasing. Where would we find someone to write "Property of Cryptic" on our rears as we bend over? I've tried, candidates are few and now I don't get many phone calls.*

Quote:
You can say the forums represent a larger mindset but with cryptic patting themselves on the back over the polls on massively I don't think they it that way. The store isn't going anywhere. As long as they can make money on $25 ships they will keep making them.
Probably true, but I'm actually curious as to why you're so intent on defending them. I mean, I know better than most how fun it can be to randomly argue in a thread but your responses here make up about a third of the thread's total posts. You seem pretty dedicated to it and while our motivations (RAAAGE! GRAH!) are clear but yours aren't. What are they?

*IDEA: To get telemarketers to stop calling, ask them to write things on your bum!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-05-2011, 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidProphet
If 7% of people say "X is stupid and we don't like it", and you only hear from 10% of people, chances are decent that about 70% of people don't care too much for x.
Your math is flawed, lets say 10% = 1000, 7% of those 10% = 70

70 does not equal 70% it equals 7%


Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidProphet
*IDEA: To get telemarketers to stop calling, ask them to write things on your bum !
easier ways....

1) answer the phone and then ask them to hang on and then set the phone down and go about your business, don't hang it up till you hear a beeping tone.

2) with Caller-ID, you just don't answer the phone if you don't know the name or the number.

3) get a private number , to name just a few....


Back to this thread...

To the OP:

There are far better ways to get your point across than crying/pouting/screaming/ranting, simply don't buy anything. You do realize that if enough people felt as you do and they did not buy anything from the c-store that they (marketing) would be forced to change the way they do things don't you ?

As with any business as long as they have a satisfactory buying public then they have a flourishing business.....when they don't they have to change their business model/price.

Guess which way has the biggest effect, I will give you a hint, not yours.....

Bottom line is that there is nothing on the c-store you need to play/enjoy the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-05-2011, 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakma View Post
Your math is flawed, lets say 10% = 1000, 7% of those 10% = 70

70 does not equal 70% it equals 7%
Your grasp of the english language is wrong. If 7% of people say something and the total number you hear from is 10% then 7/10=70%. Thanks for playing though.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-06-2011, 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidProphet
Probably true, but I'm actually curious as to why you're so intent on defending them. I mean, I know better than most how fun it can be to randomly argue in a thread but your responses here make up about a third of the thread's total posts. You seem pretty dedicated to it and while our motivations (RAAAGE! GRAH!) are clear but yours aren't. What are they?
Well that's an interesting question. I wouldn't really say I'm defending cryptic. I think a lot of the C-Store items have been poorly handled or miss priced. I think all the ships in the store are a bit over priced. Then there are the 25 dollar ships, I think it would be neat to play with them but I will never spend 25 bucks on something virtual that holds no real world value. Also I think the addition of per-character items really would do the game as a whole harm if left unchecked.

I guess my motivation would be that I saw these types of threads popping up over this new ship and it just seemed like an argument that's already been had and lost with the Galaxy X. I fore saw 20 of these threads over the month or so and instead of checking in from time to time making comments that I would just make them all up front and get burnt out on the process, and be done with it in a few days rather then have a month long debate with a few people. Turns out there isn't as big a response to this ship as I thought there was going to be.

Now I know this isn't the high road, I know I'm responding mostly because of a pet peeve. I should just see these things on here, say to myself that's stupid, and move on with my life while everyone who feels betrayed huddles up in the forums to tell each other how betrayed they feel. I couldn't resist because I have the feeling that a large amount of people who talk about never giving cryptic another dime over the latest C-Store outrage actually end up buying the items they are complaining about. Now before you stop me and ask me to state some numbers or something to back up that claim, I don't have any it's just a feeling based on the forum percentage math that is being debated.

Example: 70 percent of people on the forums feel ripped off buy the c-store and refuse to partake. The assumption is this equals 70 percent of the user base. Ok fine, then why do I see sooo many Galaxy Xs flying around in game. My conclusion is either the guess work on the numbers of people who care is way off, or people have their temper tantrums on the forums and then buy the item anyway. That last part just doesn't sit well with me and so here I am.

Also it's not like it takes much effort. They send me a nice e-mail when ever someone replies to the thread, so two clicks and I'm back spewing my "condescending, cryptic loving, fan boy, filth" for all the forums to hear.

Oh yeah, and my father was killed in the usenet flame wars of '93 over who was a better captain, Kirk or Picard. So maybe arguing over ultimately pointless things in forums is something I do to feel closer to my old man.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-06-2011, 03:19 AM
I spend a lot of the C-store because I can and because frankly I don't have much else to do atm which sucks.

But the thing people miss is that for the well over an decade MMOs have been around the subcription fees have never been raised but the vallue of mnoney has gone down by quite an ammount. Because study has proven players are not willing to pay more than 15 bucks a month subcription MMOs started to think of other ways to keep their income up.

Microtransactions where born and every major MMO out there is using them for some time already.

By doing this they can get more money from people willing to spend it while keep the sub fee the same for those who don't

Now all we will say and think won't change a thing at all because the majority either buys or does not quit the game so the finacial loss is far far smaller than it would be if they changed the store or removed it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-06-2011, 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liandras
I spend a lot of the C-store because I can and because frankly I don't have much else to do atm which sucks.

But the thing people miss is that for the well over an decade MMOs have been around the subcription fees have never been raised but the vallue of mnoney has gone down by quite an ammount. Because study has proven players are not willing to pay more than 15 bucks a month subcription MMOs started to think of other ways to keep their income up.

Microtransactions where born and every major MMO out there is using them for some time already.

By doing this they can get more money from people willing to spend it while keep the sub fee the same for those who don't

Now all we will say and think won't change a thing at all because the majority either buys or does not quit the game so the finacial loss is far far smaller than it would be if they changed the store or removed it.
The fact that the subscription rates haven't been raised (and can't be raised or few would play) is the reason I don't mind the CStore itself. Even the Galaxy X has it's place and at the price it is offered at since it was a refer a friend reward. MMORPGs are getting to the point that they actually need some additional path to make a profit and continue development.

My problems are with the way they are sold and the prices some items are sold at. Were the latest ship initially conceived as a RAF reward in addition to the CStore, I wouldn't be having this discussion at all. As it is however; the latest ship was not conceived as such, it was put in at 2000cp purely for profit regardless of how the community might feel about it.

Cryptic has done a lot of things very well, marketing is not one of those things. The marketing has been consistently underhanded and sneaky and, for the most part, utterly incompetent. There have been few advertisements to attract new players, the game price was reduced far too quickly due to marketings early screwups forcing the price reduction to attract new players.

The game could be far more populated with a competent and professional marketing team that was more interested in growing the game than in simply covering their butts from the prior mistakes they have made. They haven't even screwed up the courage to admit their failures unlike the dev and executive teams have.

Sorry if this seems like a rant against the marketing folks but most (not all) of the problems this company has had in retaining a playerbase (let alone growing one) has been directly due to marketing failures and offending existing subscribers to the point that they simply leave for greener pastures.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-06-2011, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
Oh yeah, and my father was killed in the usenet flame wars of '93 over who was a better captain, Kirk or Picard. So maybe arguing over ultimately pointless things in forums is something I do to feel closer to my old man.
Damnit, I think I actually like you.

As to the rest: Makes sense, answers my question perfectly, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liandra
But the thing people miss is that for the well over an decade MMOs have been around the subcription fees have never been raised but the vallue of mnoney has gone down by quite an ammount. Because study has proven players are not willing to pay more than 15 bucks a month subcription MMOs started to think of other ways to keep their income up.
http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/ne...0&month=052005

I couldn't find how much they were asking before, but I'm betting about $10 a month or so. If people are willing to pay $25 for a ship in addition to a $15 subscription, they're willing to pay an extra three or four dollars a month. I mean, we are, once again, talking about the only Star Trek MMO in existence. It's not like we can shrug and go play "CCP's Star Trek: Iceland's take".

Quote:
Microtransactions where born and every major MMO out there is using them for some time already.
Except for: World of ******** (That's major, right?), EVE Online, Everquest, just about pay-to-play MMO I can think of that's not run by cryptic.

And at the end of the day, people don't like microtransactions. Way, way back in ye olde days of the internet, you were charged per hour for the internet use. This made you constantly do calculations and nobody liked it. Then a few innovative companies started offering monthly rates... That were significantly more costly than the per-hour rates added up over a month.

I think you can deduce which method won.

If Cryptic steps out and says "Server costs and all that stuff are expensive, we can make all the non-aesthetic stuff in the C-Store obtainable in-game by conventional methods and keep the development team we had working on C-store ships making stuff for in-game purchase, but we'd need to charge an extra $X a month", I think most people would decide calculating hours is for suckers and pay the extra cash.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-06-2011, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidProphet
Except for: World of ******** (That's major, right?), EVE Online, Everquest, just about pay-to-play MMO I can think of that's not run by cryptic.
Most P2P MMOs now a days use "microtransactions"

A link to EQ2ss store: http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...p_sid=akrXypjk

A link to Wow's store: http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=c:5,c:33#p1 and on top of that blizzard sells a card game that has ultra rare card that can be redeemed for in game items (thats sounds like they are trying to get you to pay for in game item) and this is not including there "premium services"

Warhammer online has a microtransaction store

And the new star wars game will be microtransaction based (source: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56292

So instead of raising subscription rates companies are coming up with new ways to make more money
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