Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Ok,

This is nothing new, the idea is old, its in many games.. but this game.. where ground and space require dedication from the talent tree you provide us with 1 talent spec. In addition once you run out of respec tokens.. the amount of resources it takes to do it with in game credits is entirely to difficult.. Whats the other option? Charge us through the C store... Common cryptic.. this isent hard to do.. Just impliment it please... show your loyal customers you care and add a dual spec while decreasing the amount required to respec..

Urriel
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-29-2010, 11:33 PM
You wouldn't decide to go to MIT for a degree in computer engineering and technology, and 3 years later when you graduate, cry a month later you don't like it and wished you were trained in carpentry and woodworking.
Want to learn carpentry and woodworking? Get ready for another term in University.
You're not getting those 3 years refunded, and there are no computers that I know of made of wood to combine being trained in both fields.

I would rather keep it where there is a cost/consequence to clicking [Accept].
Don't like your choice of training? You should have been more careful in your choices. Now it will cost you to change them. Either in play time earning Merits or if you're impatient and want it NOW NOW NOW, you can pay real money. The choice is yours. And you made one.

Want versatility? Make a new character and follow another path of career or training.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
12-30-2010, 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiberry
You wouldn't decide to go to MIT for a degree in computer engineering and technology, and 3 years later when you graduate, cry a month later you don't like it and wished you were trained in carpentry and woodworking.
Want to learn carpentry and woodworking? Get ready for another term in University.
You're not getting those 3 years refunded, and there are no computers that I know of made of wood to combine being trained in both fields.

I would rather keep it where there is a cost/consequence to clicking [Accept].
Don't like your choice of training? You should have been more careful in your choices. Now it will cost you to change them. Either in play time earning Merits or if you're impatient and want it NOW NOW NOW, you can pay real money. The choice is yours. And you made one.

Want versatility? Make a new character and follow another path of career or training.
This is some seriously crazy stuff right here. As if anyone sane would ever(or should ever be forced to) devote the time and attention it takes to choose and train for a career to a video game.

Infinite free respecs is not the same as asking for a valid way to respec without having to pay real money for it. Even World of ******** provides an easy way to respec...and it is virtually free even considering the in game currency.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
12-30-2010, 12:25 AM
You know I just had to add one other thing. As the OP mentioned, there are two DISTINCT(and they are really distinct let's face it) "games" WITHIN this game, each which has to be learned and experimented with to understand how it works and how you want to play it(unless you just go the easy route and copypasta something from the forums).

Beyond THAT, this game actually has a variety of interactions between the "talent" systems and the game which make it more complicated than the average MMO. There are so many ways your team can interact with and influence your playstyle, not to mention trying to figure out how to distribute your characters points so you don't gimp yourself at cap...

Seriously you cannot argue sanely for a system in which real money is EVER required to respec in this game, it is just unfair and total nonsense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
12-30-2010, 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cancrizans View Post
This is some seriously crazy stuff right here. As if anyone sane would ever(or should ever be forced to) devote the time and attention it takes to choose and train for a career to a video game.

Infinite free respecs is not the same as asking for a valid way to respec without having to pay real money for it. Even World of ******** provides an easy way to respec...and it is virtually free even considering the in game currency.

Apparently the ending about a wooden computer wasn't enough to belay the jest. however, the seriors peice below stands.
WoW is not STO. STO is not WoW
STO isn't lacking tanks because all the Warriors are DPS and Pali's are heals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cancrizans View Post
Seriously you cannot argue sanely for a system in which real money is EVER required to respec in this game, it is just unfair and total nonsense.
What the OP either ignored or doesn't know is you don't have to pay Cryptic anything. Not a single penny. Not a strip of latinum. Not a solitary quatlu.
It's an option
You earn Merits by playing the game. The whole purpose for a game, playing it. These can be used for training Bridge Officers. Renaming Bridge Officers and ships. And, yes, even respecing your characters skills.
Cryptic is not milking anyone. Those who chose the option of buying a Captain retraining token do so if their own free will. Whether because they made a mistake and didn't have enough Merits to fix it right away, didn't know you can buy respecs with in game currency or are simply just impatient.

As for there being two games in one, yes! That's the whole point. What do you want to be?
Do you wish to be a captain that is proficient in space, helping assist or lead the charge of his/her fleet in a fight? But are more there for heal or fire support on the ground?
Do you wish to be a captain that is proficient on the ground, helping heal, support or lead his/her squad through danger? But are more there for heal or fire support in space?
Do you wish to be a captain who is good both in space and on ground, and can easily adapt your roll on the fly, but prefer to rely on others for help as much as they do you?

You want to be the best proficient captain in space, but suddenly a ground mission comes up and you want to be the most proficient captain on the ground. So.. you want a 'make magic happen' button like WoW...
I'm a DPS! NO! I'm a TANK! NO!! I'm a DP..TANKS!!
May as well just demand Cryptic add 24,000 more skill points so you can max out your career and captain training and forgo the respec button completey. Then everyone can be everyhting and no one can be proud of what they've chosen and how they've made it work since everyone will be the same on demand.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
12-30-2010, 01:26 AM
Very well said indeed Chiberry and i couldn't agree with you more.

I find STO a very overwhelming game to understand at first. There is simply a lot to take in without it ever saying a lot. Yet the answers to most of your problems is out there, but as usual, just like the OP, we moan and assume to much and generally get the wrong end of the stick. STOwiki, STOked, even a little time alone with these forums and the information starts to show itself. Those were just a few sites that have really helped my gameplay and knowledge of a game that i adore and prefer to know as much as possible.
I find STO very deep in its nature, i like the fact that unlike Wow that i played for over 5 years, there is no true spec for your role. Of course there are always the best traits over others for certain situations, but its not a 51/5/17 or something along those lines. I was a Holy Paladin during this time and believe me, save for 3 or 4 points, to succeed in high level raids, the difference in spec layout was pretty much the same across the board. I understand for Cataclysm there has been a slight refinement to that model, yet the difference is not as great as i would still have liked.

When i began playing STO, i was pretty scared of doing anything wrong. I had a few thousand merits when i realised it cost 1500 just to rename a Boff, which made me think, 'get it right first time or you're going to have to pay out big in the long term'. Yet i am Captain 8 now, with nearly 30k Merits, and i've spent quite a great deal too on Boff Skills and the like. The more you read up on the game, the better it will be for you in the end. I've respec'd once, saving each and every one from leveling up for later on down the line, for that just in case moment. There is no excuse for really using these free respec's every time you level, because until you get to a certain point, the likelihood that these will have any kind of additional and positive reaction is slim at best.
But yet again we come across Cryptic as the greedy money makers that so many believe them to be. Its an MMO. MMO's requires investment, yet some, just like many games i am seeing on the Xbox, allow you to use real money for instant unlocks. Look at Battlefield Bad Company 2 and Split/Second as quick suggestions. You can buy and instantly unlock all weapons, upgrades, cars, modes, etc or you can simply put in the time and unlock them yourself. The option is catered for both. Understand that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
12-30-2010, 02:13 AM
Since Chiberry isn't really getting any love here I feel I should add a supportive argument. I've been playing the same character for about seven months, just hit RA, Upper Half 2 today. Yeah, I play kind of slow.

Today even, I was asked, "Why are you a tac in a assault cruiser?"

I've managed to play this long without ever second guessing my progression. I don't know how everything works, but I understand how -my- character and -my- ship, and -my- BO's do. I'm play because I like it, not because it's an ultimate build or it needs make sense to other people. With that being said:

This idea of respecing came from other MMO's(WoW anyone?). I never played another game that offered such an absurd option, so to me its a surprising feature. So let's just make it so you can max out every skill, that way you don't even have to care. Better even, let's remove the classes, skills and equipment so there isn't any diversity. You'll never have to worry about picking or changing anything!

Right, because it would suck. You are absorbed with tweaking to perfection. You may find it fun, and that's alright. But the fact remains, there's no reason the game even has to have a Respec function. That it does, and that you can do it for free at each level and in addition using merits, is representative of a concession to that cause. There's only sides in this argument: people who never paid for a respec, and people who a)don't want to or b)already have and want another. Really? You used SIX respects AND all your merits? How many of those did you 'rebuild', how many times did you start and then change your mind because the changes would've been superficial?

I have 80,000 merits and 19,000 BO skill points, I've also got another four respec tokens and an emblem for a new ship I don't care about. So I'm going to play devil's advocate, that way it isn't just a defense, its a counter argument.

Cryptic, remove the respec system altogether. We're supposed to pride ourselves on our achievements, work together to compliment each other's weaknesses and be rewarded for our choices. The respec system encourages insecurity towards invested skills in, encourages bitterness in teamwork situations and causes arguments about its validity, freedom and purpose. Such a tool is clearly not in the best interest of the community and I submit it be removed until such a way can be found that it will no longer be abused. To quote a single fleet, "In order to remain in the fleet you must be using one of the approved builds. Check with the fleet master for which of the builds below we are currently accepting. Compliance is mandatory."

This idiotic statement perfectly illustrates my point. If it encourages people to think they know the proper way to play the game based on numbers, it is no longer acceptable. The respec system encourages this kind of behavior and should be removed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
12-30-2010, 02:37 AM
I am very much a fan of the dual spec idea.

The game already forces us into respecs. You want to be good at flying your current ship? Well, these skill points devalue the moment you are switching to the next ship once you level up. Heck, if you have the idea of changing the ship class, suddenly all those skill points are uselessy spent even. There is a new ship on C-Store? You need a new skill! People that would like to try the new Gurumba Siege Destroyer are basically forced to respec, too. The skill for the Gurumba is only useful if you have that ship, if you don't, it's dead weight.

At the same time, the skill system forces us to choose between ground and space skills. This leads to many people specialisizing on one area - ground or space and avoiding content in the area they don't like - which can mean weekly episodes, storyline episodes, and warping out of exploration missions you don't care for. The choice between ground and space skills doesn't really care a fair trade-off.

Dual Spec can solve all these issues. You can spec for ground combat in one, space combat in the other. You can spec into two different ships. Use it however you like. There isn't even a need to rework the entire skill system (I would prefer if there were more ground skills and ground and space skills were kept seperate.)

---

All that said; I wouldn't necessarily combine an argumentation about the necessity of dual spec with accusations of greed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
12-30-2010, 03:31 AM
Well I do not think that any other respec otion is necessary now. You get 7 tokkens during leveling; i'playing since beta and have not used more then 2 on each char.
You can TEST skill sets on Tribel.. What more do you want, randomly change the skilling whenever you want? If you want to play with two entirely diffrent set: make a new character, you level fast enough.

However, one mentionet thing I do not like is the fact that Ground Skills and Space skills use the same skillpoints. That always causes the decision between beeing a better Spaceship captain (wich is the "fun" part of the game and more important in pvp, at last if you avoid ground pvp like I and the most do) and pi*s off the whole group in STFs OR you are a good on ground but miss the skills in space (again, in pvp I need every point^^), or the "middle way" the most go, where they are not SO good in both.

In my opinion the Skill system should be reworked to have completly diffrent "kinds" of Skillpoints for Ground and Space.

But anyway, there are a lot of things I do not like about the current skill system..... may be it should be reworked all over^^
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
12-30-2010, 04:47 AM
Quote:
In my opinion the Skill system should be reworked to have completly diffrent "kinds" of Skillpoints for Ground and Space.
I would prefer this route in the ideal world, but I imagine it could cause a lot of problems with existing characters - and we don't even know how to really implement a character advanacement system split between ground and space skill. It works for Crafting and Diplomacy, since they have their own advancements and "ranks". But the skill system decides your Captain's rank in the KDF or Starfleet, if you split ground and space, how do you decide this rank? The highest of both? The sum of both? The average of both? Do you get a ground and a space rank? And how do you gain ground skill points and how do you gain space skill points?

Dual Spec can allow us to circumvent this discussion. Just let us decide whether we have a ground and a space spec, or, say a Star Cruiser and a Fleet Escort spec.

It is not ideal, though. Currently, the ground skill tree is way too short. If you really focus everything you got into it, you could probably be maxed in everything at RA 5 or so. So maybe we can' get by the idea that the ground skills must be expanded first.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:29 PM.