Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-02-2011, 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I was really asking less about the skills involved. Those are simple.

How do you control your camera? What settings do you use, how do you move your camera?
For example:
Generally, a zoomed out perspective is good for getting an overview and good situational awareness. But if I fly a Defiant, I can barely see where it's pointing at, so I would prefer to go closer. But then I lose my situational awareness (and nasty stuff like BoPs uncloaking behind me or the enemy that's suspectible to a burst, or a comrade in need).
Should I always try to move the camera in the direction my ship is facing?

All that is stuff you learn but I haven't really found something that makes me 100 % happy. maybe there isn't, and it's all just trade-offs. But discussing this would be helpful for Escort players, since they know what to look for and find their play-style.
You see, closer is better. Have the camera settings set to rotate back to your ship unless you tab target, in which case, just have it set to focus on target, and keep it zoomed out a little. When I get my cable internet back, ill fraps and upload a few videos of FvK arena matches in my tactical defiant and engineering fleet escort.

As for manual camera control, I hold my right mouse button and rotate camera from there, but that depends on mouse sensitivity.

You really made me think back on how I control my camera. I almost couldn't answer you

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I know that a popular build is using dual beams in the front weapon slot to use Beam Overload for the extra spike. Anyone ever cared to analyize how the damage output in your average burst would change if you move to a single beam in the back, and make a small 90 turn part of your "alpha"? How much damage does Beam Overload with a beam array lose compared to a dual beam?
well, your limiting your rear end's firing arc when you do that, which means you get less shots off.

as for Beam: Overload- it drains 50 power when you use B:O1. As for B:O2- i have seen it drain a little more power, iirc it drains 60 power. as for B:O3- I have never had a bridge officer with that power, so I can not comment on it.

The reason my build has the dual beam bank is because you can land a massive damage spike in an alpha strike with that ability. My Borg Tactical can dish out over 14,000 damage on a B:O2 critical alone.

add that in with the rest of my cannon: Rapid fire, and my alpha strike is quite deadly.

My engineering fleet escort is not nearly as powerful in damage dealing, but it can tank the hell out of science, escorts, and most birds of preys, and that's with an identical setup and fight strategy
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-02-2011, 03:39 PM
Escort fighting guide:



Decloak (or zoom in to attack)

Spam CRF + APA + Cannons or FAW + APA + DBB

Execute evasive + EPtE (or eng battery).

Recloak


/win
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-02-2011, 04:20 PM
Hm, I would have thought Hale would have something to say in this thread
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-03-2011, 05:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apt.pupil
Hm, I would have thought Hale would have something to say in this thread
What would he suggest - Don't have the handle SteveHale unless you like being $target?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-03-2011, 07:01 AM
Subscribed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-03-2011, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
What would he suggest - Don't have the handle SteveHale unless you like being $target?
something like that.

but in all seriousness, he can do the escort drill a little better than I can, so if I did happen to miss out on anything big in my escort write up- he would be one of the first people who would tell me
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-03-2011, 04:04 PM
I skimmed it and the first thing that comes to mind is wrong forums. It should go in the escort forum! But no big deal there.

The next thing that comes to mind is too wordy. What is it, the first twelve posts in this thread are the OP? Yikes. I'd really try to pare it down considerably and condense it to make it easier to read. A big thing you could do to help this is organizing it in a way so that someone can read the front and get a good idea of where they want to look for more information on what they want to know about. Maybe they just want to know about which powers to use, or weapon loadouts. Well they have to read through the whole thing to find that information, currently.

Some specific issues I did notice, however. You touted damage score as some kind of measure of success, and to put it gently, score means nothing. It doesn't matter what your score is, because that indicates nothing.

I've gone through matches with terrible damage score on an escort, yet I felt very good about my performance. Why? Because I was getting focus fired often enough that I couldn't actually do anything offensive, yet I cheated death enough that despite being unable to do much damage, I denied the enemy kills, which ultimately cost them the match. An escort can come out of a match with top healing (which maybe says more about your team, and isn't really something to strive for anyways)!

And that leads to another thing, you touched on but I think you should stress a bit more, is healing your team. No its not an escort's primary role, but if you have team healing powers, you need to use them when appropriate.

And a comment I noticed about the Defiant. Its maneuverability is accurate. It is the most maneuverable escort, but not by much. Base maneuverability is multiplied by all other factors like engine power and other turn rate modifiers, so in the end, given the same power and equipment a defiant will have a larger margin than 2 degrees/s. However, I also have to say that is severely mitigated by missing an engineering console slot. A fleet escort or raptor can come very, very close to matching the Defiant's turn rate by using an RCS console in their extra engineering console slot.

A final note, I didn't see it mentioned anywhere, but it is something that makes a huge difference in escort performance, and that is throttle control and creative maneuvering. It is a hard thing to master, but learning how to shift your throttle from full forward to half speeds to reverse or anywhere in between, and understanding how it helps your positioning can make a huge difference in your overall performance. Its definitely not an easy thing to explain, though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I know that a popular build is using dual beams in the front weapon slot to use Beam Overload for the extra spike. Anyone ever cared to analyize how the damage output in your average burst would change if you move to a single beam in the back, and make a small 90 turn part of your "alpha"? How much damage does Beam Overload with a beam array lose compared to a dual beam?
I use that, though typically it has nothing to do with being part of the alpha strike. I chiefly use it for subsystem targeting to disable my target before turning into them, but BO can work too as an opener. I also like it for more bite in my rear and side quadrants, since it can be tough to outmanevuer another escort, and a BO in the face followed by some torpedoes is a good way to remind them they should go bother a cruiser instead.

As a closer, however, I have found it doesn't usually work well. The thing is, there is usually no reason to turn from your target for 10s, while rapid fire is running. After that, if they aren't dead, they have generally had plenty of time to get heals and resists going and a parting gift is not actually going to finish them off. Only rarely does it make a great combo maneuver.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
I skimmed it and the first thing that comes to mind is wrong forums. It should go in the escort forum! But no big deal there.
Not really, since this is mainly for PvP, not PvE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
The next thing that comes to mind is too wordy. What is it, the first twelve posts in this thread are the OP? Yikes. I'd really try to pare it down considerably and condense it to make it easier to read. A big thing you could do to help this is organizing it in a way so that someone can read the front and get a good idea of where they want to look for more information on what they want to know about. Maybe they just want to know about which powers to use, or weapon loadouts. Well they have to read through the whole thing to find that information, currently.
There is actually quite a bit more that I could have said. its not just about how you pilot the escort. There are so many posts because I categorized each post. True- If i didnt categorize this, it would be about 3 posts, but it would look an awful mess, and people would complain that its too hard to find information. however now if they need to find out a useful way to spend skill points to spec into escorts more effectively, they can now just find the post by using the post titles to find the category

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
Some specific issues I did notice, however. You touted damage score as some kind of measure of success, and to put it gently, score means nothing. It doesn't matter what your score is, because that indicates nothing.
I did not really tout it as a measure of success. My definition of a measure of success in an escort is any 3 of the following:
  1. Highest damage on team
  2. Highest damage in match
  3. Your total death count is less than half of your kill count
  4. your team wins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
I've gone through matches with terrible damage score on an escort, yet I felt very good about my performance. Why? Because I was getting focus fired often enough that I couldn't actually do anything offensive, yet I cheated death enough that despite being unable to do much damage, I denied the enemy kills, which ultimately cost them the match. An escort can come out of a match with top healing (which maybe says more about your team, and isn't really something to strive for anyways)!
thats because healing is not specific. If they removed the self- healing from the healing score, this would be a more accurate representation of your actual performance in the match

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
And that leads to another thing, you touched on but I think you should stress a bit more, is healing your team. No its not an escort's primary role, but if you have team healing powers, you need to use them when appropriate.
I said to do that, but i also said that you must keep in mind when PuGging- you rarely get heals thrrown your way, which means it is advisable to throw heals to your team mates only when it is safe to- say theres another escort taking fire from the enemy team, or whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
And a comment I noticed about the Defiant. Its maneuverability is accurate. It is the most maneuverable escort, but not by much. Base maneuverability is multiplied by all other factors like engine power and other turn rate modifiers, so in the end, given the same power and equipment a defiant will have a larger margin than 2 degrees/s. However, I also have to say that is severely mitigated by missing an engineering console slot. A fleet escort or raptor can come very, very close to matching the Defiant's turn rate by using an RCS console in their extra engineering console slot.
I know this, but I do not recommend RCS for escorts in general because that is a wasted slot. I offered 4 alternatives. Let me repeat them again:
  1. Evasive Maneuvers
  2. Auxiliary to Dampeners
  3. Attack Pattern omega
  4. Deuterium Surplus
A good combination of at least 3 of those will make up for what the fleet and advanced escorts lack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
A final note, I didn't see it mentioned anywhere, but it is something that makes a huge difference in escort performance, and that is throttle control and creative maneuvering. It is a hard thing to master, but learning how to shift your throttle from full forward to half speeds to reverse or anywhere in between, and understanding how it helps your positioning can make a huge difference in your overall performance. Its definitely not an easy thing to explain, though.
To fix this, I am going to be recording a fraps video of me piloting each type of T5 fescort- but as of right now, oinly my laptop is capable of video capture while maintaining smooth frame rates. I havent updated STO in over a month on my laptop, and i dont have the 2 and a bit GB of download allowance that I will need to download the patch. I am on less than a GB allownace left for the next week and a bit, so the video is going to take some time.

I do appreciate the feedback, however the first 2 points of criticism were not so valid. I dont want to have to retype this whole thread again in the escort section, partly because this is not intended for PvE escorts, and partly because that took one hell of a long time. i know i can copy+paste, but last time i went in the escorts section, there was about 30 threads similar to mine, just not PvP specific
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-04-2011, 06:42 AM
see now this is a nice guide, as was the healing guide. The problem with it lies in the fact the only people to read it are the ones that don't actually need to read it on account of them already knowing this stuff the people that need this info never see it to benefit.

I have been lvl'in up a new chr and i have been a in matches with fed cruisers doing 0 healing at the end, and not that they didn't heal anyone i mean they never healed anything. No Epts no ET nothing. Ok we still won (dam i am good) but i see escorts are no better i see players in escorts with 0 heals and doing less damage than i do in my sci ship with 100 aux setting.

We all want better pvp'ers, hell we need them to get better. This post and posts like it should at the very least be stickied in the general gameplay section. Alternatively Craptic should host an improve ur gameplay day an have a vent that anyione and everyone can join for a couple of days with it split into sections based on ship class and captain type. Then have an adviser in each section (maybe a free months sub for helping or c-store points) who can offer help and answer questions. So if you want to be a better Tac/raptor player now is your chance to speak to somoeone like blackjack, trinty if you want to improve your dps cruiser build etc Era for healing builds, you get what i mean, than have them advertise it heavily to ensure players know the chance is there. God know this would be more productive than another round of nerfs
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-04-2011, 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardept View Post
see now this is a nice guide, as was the healing guide. The problem with it lies in the fact the only people to read it are the ones that don't actually need to read it on account of them already knowing this stuff the people that need this info never see it to benefit.
I found the healing guide useful then, but I was just starting a career as Engineer then.

But going by my thread in the Starfleet Academy forum about Shield Comparisons... Yeah, lots of people out there that don't know much about this game. And "re-educating" them on all that they missed in this game's development over the past months is hard, if they don't just take your word for it.
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