Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
01-24-2011, 10:05 PM
ok it has a strong recommendation and good arguments.

I have 11k+ shields on my defiant r using the 35% shield console. Yet I find if I dedicate my powers to hull healing + resistance, I can tank far better and longer than if I dedicate my power set to shield tanking.

tested under the same conditions, the two different tank sets, and the hull tank always comes out on top in terms of longevity. without even using a hull repair console.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
01-25-2011, 03:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruis.In View Post
a friend of mine has switched from using canons to using dual beam banks.

he says with his setup vs his old one he is only doing 50dps less.

my question to you is what testing have you guys done, and what do the best escort pvpers among us use?

certainly going 4 guns up front and no torpedoes will lead to a lot of redundant tactical powers since ull have no more use for HYT. what do you guys think of 4dbb up front with 90 arc vs 4 canons up front......do DBB need less damage if escorts are using those instead of the weapon unique to us i.e canons? or do canons need a buff?

indeed now our matches are very short me an engineer/ defiant-r and him in a tactical/defiant-r

before i could tank him for way longer....it appears the 90 arc far outweighs any disadvantage by the loss of dps, which isn't much.

As soon as you have it so that canons aren't worth it on escorts then you have a problem?
Well.. 4 DBB is popular with 2x FAW3 and a Rank3 Attackpattern.. For that reason Ive slotted 2x Chroniton mines and 1 Tricobalt mine on the rear on my new Escort character.

Tac BO is :

Tac Team - Dispersal Alpha - FAW3 - Omega3
Tac Team - Dispersal Beta - FAW3 - Beta3 (normally Id use Delta3 as a alternate, but Im not using it until the resist bug is fixed)
BOL1

Sofar it works nicely, my mines suck up a lot of enemy FAW beams, and I merely have to turn outside the DBB arc to avoid FBPs
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
01-25-2011, 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruis.In View Post
ok it has a strong recommendation and good arguments.

I have 11k+ shields on my defiant r using the 35% shield console. Yet I find if I dedicate my powers to hull healing + resistance, I can tank far better and longer than if I dedicate my power set to shield tanking.

tested under the same conditions, the two different tank sets, and the hull tank always comes out on top in terms of longevity. without even using a hull repair console.
If youre a Tactical, its no big surprise, since Tac Damage% buffs also increases resists on Polarize, Hazard AP Delta and A2SIF (its a bug and will be changed Soon™)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
01-26-2011, 03:36 PM
Apt.pupil, really nice and detailed Guide. Thank you!

I have one observation: You comment that your consoles don't fully stack?
Based on my research/experience, I disagree.


To elaborate, I was just testing this yesterday with Target SubSystem: Shields. My new Sci Escort has these skills:

Starship Operations Training 9 + Astrophysicist trait (+10) = 28 skill
Starship Sensors = 9 + Aegis Deflector Array bonus (+18) = 48 skill
Starship Sensors Array = 9 = 52 skill
Total TSS:S skill points = 128.

I wanted to see exactly how much a Multi-Spectro Scanner console would help my TSS:S. I bought two common Mk III consoles each with a +5 buff to Sensor Array. With no console my TSS:S drained 66 shield power. With one console (+5 skill) it drained 67, with the second Mk III it drained 68 skill. That's a +1 drain per 5 pts/skill. Liking those results, I invested in two rare MK XIs (each +18), giving my new Grand Total TSS:S skill point total 164, and a total of a 73 point Shield Power drain. 128+36=164. 66+(36/5)=~73.

Looking back at it, the math is right there... TSS:S has a base power drain of 40. That 66 I started with works perfectly with 40 + 128/5 (~26).

If there was a stacking nerf, then the second console would only lend 9 skill points or roughly 2 to the power meaning my drain should have been 71. But it isn't.

I just happen to have that math/testing info handly, because, as I said, I did it yesterday. But in tests I've done in the past, I've seen similar full stacking results in consoles that affect weapons, tractor beams, hazard emitters, hull repair, ship's power, etc.

There are exceptions in the Engineering Consoles: Hull armor is affected by the way the game calculates resistances using a form of "diminishing returns" but that's more in the game mechanics/formula versus a direct nerf on the consoles themselves. And the Field Generator you mentioned which has a hard cap of one non-stackable console per ship (ie +35% shield capacity).

Anyway, I hope I made the math make sense. And your overall advice regarding consoles is still sound, but you can remove the bits about the second consoles being nerfed, for example, instead of a +91 buff on your phaser skill, you're really getting a 104 buff. And you could get the same buff out of 4x Phaser Relays, instead of mixing with the Prefires.

Again, great article, and I've added it to my Guides list.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
02-02-2011, 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatricianVetinari
Apt.pupil, really nice and detailed Guide. Thank you!

I have one observation: You comment that your consoles don't fully stack?
Based on my research/experience, I disagree.


To elaborate, I was just testing this yesterday with Target SubSystem: Shields. My new Sci Escort has these skills:

Starship Operations Training 9 + Astrophysicist trait (+10) = 28 skill
Starship Sensors = 9 + Aegis Deflector Array bonus (+18) = 48 skill
Starship Sensors Array = 9 = 52 skill
Total TSS:S skill points = 128.

I wanted to see exactly how much a Multi-Spectro Scanner console would help my TSS:S. I bought two common Mk III consoles each with a +5 buff to Sensor Array. With no console my TSS:S drained 66 shield power. With one console (+5 skill) it drained 67, with the second Mk III it drained 68 skill. That's a +1 drain per 5 pts/skill. Liking those results, I invested in two rare MK XIs (each +18), giving my new Grand Total TSS:S skill point total 164, and a total of a 73 point Shield Power drain. 128+36=164. 66+(36/5)=~73.

Looking back at it, the math is right there... TSS:S has a base power drain of 40. That 66 I started with works perfectly with 40 + 128/5 (~26).

If there was a stacking nerf, then the second console would only lend 9 skill points or roughly 2 to the power meaning my drain should have been 71. But it isn't.

I just happen to have that math/testing info handly, because, as I said, I did it yesterday. But in tests I've done in the past, I've seen similar full stacking results in consoles that affect weapons, tractor beams, hazard emitters, hull repair, ship's power, etc.

There are exceptions in the Engineering Consoles: Hull armor is affected by the way the game calculates resistances using a form of "diminishing returns" but that's more in the game mechanics/formula versus a direct nerf on the consoles themselves. And the Field Generator you mentioned which has a hard cap of one non-stackable console per ship (ie +35% shield capacity).

Anyway, I hope I made the math make sense. And your overall advice regarding consoles is still sound, but you can remove the bits about the second consoles being nerfed, for example, instead of a +91 buff on your phaser skill, you're really getting a 104 buff. And you could get the same buff out of 4x Phaser Relays, instead of mixing with the Prefires.

Again, great article, and I've added it to my Guides list.
thanks for the update on the consoles. I have seen much debate, and I said they generally dont stack as a laymans way of saying that even if they do, it has a barely noticeable effect on the effectiveness of the skill/weapons/armor. maybe i should blame diminishing returns on it.

Thanks for the response. I think I will continue my research on the science vessels and do up a full guide on them too. that will take a little longer, since I have noticed that some science ships play like all beam escorts and others more like support cruisers
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
02-02-2011, 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Well.. 4 DBB is popular with 2x FAW3 and a Rank3 Attackpattern.. For that reason Ive slotted 2x Chroniton mines and 1 Tricobalt mine on the rear on my new Escort character.

Tac BO is :

Tac Team - Dispersal Alpha - FAW3 - Omega3
Tac Team - Dispersal Beta - FAW3 - Beta3 (normally Id use Delta3 as a alternate, but Im not using it until the resist bug is fixed)
BOL1

Sofar it works nicely, my mines suck up a lot of enemy FAW beams, and I merely have to turn outside the DBB arc to avoid FBPs
you also have the added 30% chance of stopping the enemy ships that run into your mines/ torpedoes.

it is an interesting setup that I will experiment with myself once i get some more respec tokens under me

I have made an edit in accordance to recent discoveries about skill point allocations and console stacking.

Research is still underway, so keep this thread bookmarked for more information
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