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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
Just a FYI...

I'm about to retire this Accolade... so get it while you can. It's being replaced with new class specific Accolades with the remastering of the mission.

Goz

While I understand this comment was not an official announcement of changes to how accolades work, it does seem to imply there are changes coming. As one who's accolade count is pushing 9000, I'd like to offer some concerns I have.

First, I'm not really a fan of "retiring" accolades. A new player shouldn't be prevented from achieving an accolade that a veteran player received simply because the veteran player signed up while it was still obtainable. I'm definitely hopefully to see additional accolades added to the game, however I would not like to see any removed.

Second, class specific accolades don't sound like fun either. I don't want the ability to earn an accolade based on the fact I'm a tac instead of a engineer or sci officer. Accolades are earned for doing some task and while "class specific" puzzles in a mission are a novel idea, I don't see them adding any value when applied towards earning accolades.

I'm hopeful to see additional accolades in the game, that's pretty much the only thing that's kept me playing everyday for the past few months. Remastering old missions is great, adding new rewards is nice too and new accolades for them even better. However I hope the dev team strongly reconsiders removing existing accolades and making new accolades obtainable only if you are of a specific class.

Removing accolades is only going to frustrate new accolade hunters and class specific accolades are going to annoy those of us who want to have all the accolades on our character.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-06-2011, 09:01 AM
i get your point, and agree a little.
i think adding new ones is a neat idea. class specific is also neat and makes the player more immersed in his/her role as a class to look for the specific accolades.
retiring old ones is not different then say being able to get first place accolades for fleet actions.
some people will never get them because they are based on points for dmg currently only. (i am sure this is still the way it is calculated, if not please advise).
so this is a good thing if you ask me. maybe they will revamp the fleet action accolades/trophies and have class specific goals in order to attain say first place in the sci class based on how well you healed, assisted, and so forth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-06-2011, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_James_of_Cadiz
class specific is also neat and makes the player more immersed in his/her role as a class to look for the specific accolades.
I see this happening in one of two ways. Most likely it's going to be similar to how the class specific puzzles worked in the Devidian mission. If you complete the class specific puzzle you get an accolade and as long as there is a class-specific puzzle for EACH class in the mission, nobody is able to get more or less accolades than anyone else. I don't see how that would immerse me in my role as a tac officer either, however that's just my opinion.

Also, using the Devidian mission as an example, each of the three class specific puzzles have a different difficulty associated with them. The engi puzzle is very easy compared to activating the turrets which require fighting a room full of Devidians. As it stands now the task to achieve the accolades are equal across all classes. While it's arguable that killing 1000 enemies is easier for a tac than a sci officer, the disparity is less than having completely different tasks required for achieving the accolade.

The other way this could go down is an accolade is available ONLY to a specific class in a mission, which would be frustrating to those whose main character isn't of that class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_James_of_Cadiz
retiring old ones is not different then say being able to get first place accolades for fleet actions.
some people will never get them because they are based on points for dmg currently only. (i am sure this is still the way it is calculated, if not please advise).
I'm afraid I have to disagree with this. There is a huge difference between having to spec yourself for damage and learn how to be effective in an escort to get first in a fleet action versus simply having no method of obtaining the accolade at all. Granted, it may be difficult but that's nothing at all similar to simply having no way to obtain it.

Obtaining accolades should be a level playing field for new players and old as well as between sci, engi and tac characters. The implied changes seem to indicate that new players will never be able to obtain the same number of accolades as veteran players. Class specific accolades imply either separate tasks required to achieve an accolade or in a worst case scenario accolades are only available to a single class in a mission.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-06-2011, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
I see this happening in one of two ways. Most likely it's going to be similar to how the class specific puzzles worked in the Devidian mission. If you complete the class specific puzzle you get an accolade and as long as there is a class-specific puzzle for EACH class in the mission, nobody is able to get more or less accolades than anyone else. I don't see how that would immerse me in my role as a tac officer either, however that's just my opinion.

Also, using the Devidian mission as an example, each of the three class specific puzzles have a different difficulty associated with them. The engi puzzle is very easy compared to activating the turrets which require fighting a room full of Devidians. As it stands now the task to achieve the accolades are equal across all classes. While it's arguable that killing 1000 enemies is easier for a tac than a sci officer, the disparity is less than having completely different tasks required for achieving the accolade.

The other way this could go down is an accolade is available ONLY to a specific class in a mission, which would be frustrating to those whose main character isn't of that class.



I'm afraid I have to disagree with this. There is a huge difference between having to spec yourself for damage and learn how to be effective in an escort to get first in a fleet action versus simply having no method of obtaining the accolade at all. Granted, it may be difficult but that's nothing at all similar to simply having no way to obtain it.

Obtaining accolades should be a level playing field for new players and old as well as between sci, engi and tac characters. The implied changes seem to indicate that new players will never be able to obtain the same number of accolades as veteran players. Class specific accolades imply either separate tasks required to achieve an accolade or in a worst case scenario accolades are only available to a single class in a mission.
to your first part: i read the statement to be that each class will have an objective in the mission, meaning each class gets an accolade for finding and completing the action. thus no one is left out unless you cant find or complete the task to get the accolade.

on to the next point: re: fleet actions. you mention tac. what about the sci class vessel or career that does not deal the dmg a tac does? how then can you compare the ability to get the trophy? you seem to have forgotten there are two other classes that can partake in fleet actions, but with different roles then just dmg output.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-06-2011, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_James_of_Cadiz
on to the next point: re: fleet actions. you mention tac. what about the sci class vessel or career that does not deal the dmg a tac does? how then can you compare the ability to get the trophy? you seem to have forgotten there are two other classes that can partake in fleet actions, but with different roles then just dmg output.
I've seen sci/engi officers in an escort do enough damage to score first in a fleet action. Escorts are available to all careers and as such do provide a means to achieve first place in a fleet action. You are correct, a sci SHIP won't ever take first in damage, but nobody is required to try and use a sci ship.

Another factor is how many others are in the fleet action. Not all fleet actions are populated with 20 other players all equipped to do max DPS. A couple of the "less popular" fleet actions I was alone for most of the time until a couple other guys showed up near the end.

Again this is about something being "difficult" to obtain versus "impossible". Just because it seems impossible to get first place in a fleet action on a sci character, doesn't mean it actually is. Removing the accolade from the game literally does make it impossible.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-06-2011, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
I've seen sci/engi officers in an escort do enough damage to score first in a fleet action. Escorts are available to all careers and as such do provide a means to achieve first place in a fleet action. You are correct, a sci SHIP won't ever take first in damage, but nobody is required to try and use a sci ship.

Another factor is how many others are in the fleet action. Not all fleet actions are populated with 20 other players all equipped to do max DPS. A couple of the "less popular" fleet actions I was alone for most of the time until a couple other guys showed up near the end.

Again this is about something being "difficult" to obtain versus "impossible". Just because it seems impossible to get first place in a fleet action on a sci character, doesn't mean it actually is. Removing the accolade from the game literally does make it impossible.
i get your point, but then why should a sci cpt be forced to use an escort to get first place?

yes i know there are times when the actions are less populated, in fact this is how i got my first place for SB24. i ended up soloing the action all the way thru....took forever, but was completed. so i know there are other methods, but you seem to lean that in order to get dps you need an escort. what about playing to the abilities of the other classes? sci are basically healers. so by your stance, a sci guy should respec to fly an escort to get the accolade? why cant he/she get the accolade based in his class specific role?

and while they are removing (per the statement) the azzura accolade as it is currently, who is to say the accolade would not be the same wall mounted one now, but that each class gets an objective befitting them?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-06-2011, 10:41 AM
I think he isn't just removing the accolade.

In remastering the mission, he is changing it so that saving the crewmembers isn't possible

Or more likely, that 3 new accolades are being added, so that each career can save the crew in class-specific ways.

So if the mission is changed to such a point that the accolade would be obtained in such a way that its totally different than the old one, then isn't it best to just retire it and add new ones for the new version of the mission?


Retired achievements markers and trophies do exactly what you said they do; they show that a player played this game when it was in a different state.

Sorry, new guy, you can't get that old accolade. But good news, you didn't have to play that older, less polished version of the game, either!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-06-2011, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberion1701
I think he isn't just removing the accolade.

In remastering the mission, he is changing it so that saving the crewmembers isn't possible

Or more likely, that 3 new accolades are being added, so that each career can save the crew in class-specific ways.

So if the mission is changed to such a point that the accolade would be obtained in such a way that its totally different than the old one, then isn't it best to just retire it and add new ones for the new version of the mission?


Retired achievements markers and trophies do exactly what you said they do; they show that a player played this game when it was in a different state.

Sorry, new guy, you can't get that old accolade. But good news, you didn't have to play that older, less polished version of the game, either!
me thinks your putting more into it then you need to.

removed or not, the old accolade will stay for those of us that got it, end of story.

however he decides to work the new ones in, then at least one can still get an accolade in the mission.

from the sounds of his post, it looks to me he will retire the old one (or at least how it is obtained) and work in new ones or other ways to get the azzura accolade.

he has only hinted to what he is doing. there is no solid posting from him to tell us what he is doing for sure.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-06-2011, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_James_of_Cadiz
i get your point, but then why should a sci cpt be forced to use an escort to get first place?
I think you're hitting on a different topic now. Yes, I agree more than damage should be used to determine rankings in fleet actions, however that's not my point. My point is any player has an opportunity to achieve an accolade regardless of when they started playing the game. The fact that sci guy has to spec out and become proficient in an escort is unfortunate, however is much different than having no way whatsoever to achieve the accolade. Most accolades are pain in the rear and time consuming, it just goes with the territory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberion1701
Sorry, new guy, you can't get that old accolade.
As a player who enjoys achieving the accolades in the game, I find it arrogant and completely unacceptable to tell a new player "too bad" when it comes to achieving accolades. If I was new and realized I couldn't get the Azura trophy and the answer was "well sorry new guy you can't do that, it's only for us veterans" I'd be understandably upset. Keeping new players from achieving old accolades does nothing to make this a more enjoyable game.

If "remastering" a mission means you lose the ability to go back and acquire any accolades associated with that mission, then I'll kindly pass on the "improvements". If they want to go back and completely change the old missions, then at least leave the old missions available "as is" so people can pick up missed accolades.

It was a bad idea when they grandfathered in the old science consoles with the higher stats. It gave veteran players an advantage over new players and I really hope they don't again repeat that same mistake when it comes to obtaining accolades.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-06-2011, 12:52 PM
I don't know, the way that Goz put it made it sound like myself or any other player put in time for nothing haha....

I have a nice amount of accolades....what's going ot happen to them
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