Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-09-2011, 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObieKenobi View Post
What's so hard about creating a whole new sector that's specifically an Open PvP zone with territory control?
For a developer, this guy is seriously narrow minded.

Contests? Said they'd do that a long time ago and they still haven't put their money where their mouth is. The current two limited map playstyles are getting -really- old and uninspired. It's wholly unprofessional of them to assume halfassed contests will be satisfactory content.


Then again this probably will require them to commit more money and resources that they'd rather put into more C-Store materials so they can milk the STO community even further.
its the money they dont want to spend, creating it and maintaining it. In the Q system they have control on how many people are in each Q. So they can place all their server power there. But in open world, they dont know when or where pvp will happen. This would require them to setup some serious server power for open world pvp. They dont want to do that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-09-2011, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
I'll be honest, I really don't think Dan understands what people really want with PvP.

Sure, he said they are going to add more Open PvP areas, but that bit about "part of the Story" or "play out scenarios" makes me think it's going to be something like Ker'rat with somekind of PvE objective or objectives we have in C&H.

I just can't help but to think this would get old fast.



Personally, what I feel that this game really needs with PvP is actual Territorial PvP. Where there is actual reasons to fight, where there are actual wins and losses. Controling sectors or controlling a world with a certain benefit (technology, resources, etc).

If we had such a system, I'm very sure that it would encourage PvEers to participate and shore up the declining PvP population. And at the same time, make STO really fun!



So, what do you all think?
Stahls answer is pretty straightforward.

the PvP player base does not equal the PvE player base. Obviously there are a lot more players who like to PvE over PvP so moving to a complete open PvP system would be signing the death certificate of STO

The thing is PvEers are intrested in PvE only, not in player harassing them from system to system or pre-mades chasing them across the galaxy. And that will happen no matter which way you cut it.

Some people, correction most poeple are not intrested in PvP.

But i agree with you that there should be certain systems in which the player base controls the influenze based on PvP results.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-09-2011, 01:20 PM
You would be surprised how many PvEers would try out PvP if territorial warfare was implemented. Even if it meant trying it out for a day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-09-2011, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
You would be surprised how many PvEers would try out PvP if territorial warfare was implemented. Even if it meant trying it out for a day.
Nah i dont think so man, honestly games like WoW got successful cuz of massive PvE missions. People would rather PvE than PvP, if you force PvP then i think its going to end to the demise of the game itself.

But it would be fun to try out and see if it works, things like you suggessted sector control based on on win loss records. But with the fed PvP crowd dwindling and game imbalances its going to be hard to persuade players to embrace the idea
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-09-2011, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Objective PvP is Ker'rat or C&H, where you got an objective to win in a short-term battle. Where the battle resets or the points change hands easily.

Control / Territoral PvP is long-term where control can technically be days, months, years.


Battling for Control over a Space Station >>>>> Capturing a point in space (C&H).
You're playing semantics. lol

Battling for control over X is a tangible objective.

What you're trying to say is you want a specific type of objective that has more constant PvP interaction as well as long term rewards / benefits. You want the objective to have X impact on the world and gameplay in that sector once it's completed.

Quote:
Heh, all PvP in this game is all about Zerging.
Well to a point. Mainly just the smaller ganking fleets zerg in Kerrat because:


1. It's the limit of their fleet's competitive PvP abilities.

2. There is little to no competition in there because there are no rewards or purpose really and the better or bigger fleets have already lost interest in it.

3. It's filled with a lot of single player farmer noobies because of the mechanics of the instance. Easy prey.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-09-2011, 03:50 PM
Maybe they should just make a seperate "shard" of the game that is an Open PVP shard.. Same game, just everything is open PVP. Just a thought..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-09-2011, 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerubian_Assasin1
Nah i dont think so man, honestly games like WoW got successful cuz of massive PvE missions. People would rather PvE than PvP, if you force PvP then i think its going to end to the demise of the game itself.

But it would be fun to try out and see if it works, things like you suggessted sector control based on on win loss records. But with the fed PvP crowd dwindling and game imbalances its going to be hard to persuade players to embrace the idea
That's the thing, Cryptic throws in a couple of new PvE missions and it will last a day, a week, like we did with the episode missions. But after they do the mission, it's back to the ol PvP, Exploration, Fleet Action, etc grind in doing the same thing. That's what is really contributing to the decline in the population.

But if we had territorial PvP with an actual moving front, it definitely would add greatly to the dynamics of STO to which it would likely bring players back (PvP and PvE).


And again, for the PvErs we could have Diplomatic missions thrown in there that can get players to contribute to the war effort without having to PvP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath View Post
Maybe they should just make a seperate "shard" of the game that is an Open PVP shard.. Same game, just everything is open PVP. Just a thought..
From what Dan said about opening up all sectors to Klingons, they probablly might have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
You're playing semantics. lol

Battling for control over X is a tangible objective.

What you're trying to say is you want a specific type of objective that has more constant PvP interaction as well as long term rewards / benefits. You want the objective to have X impact on the world and gameplay in that sector once it's completed.
I don't want any stupid battling over points every few minutes. Like a group of us takes a point in space and beam down and someone on the other side retakes that point. It just turns into somekind of C&H. So there needs to be a time period where control is retained. Else you're not going to have a battlefront, you're going to have a chaotic mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
Well to a point. Mainly just the smaller ganking fleets zerg in Kerrat because:


1. It's the limit of their fleet's competitive PvP abilities.

2. There is little to no competition in there because there are no rewards or purpose really and the better or bigger fleets have already lost interest in it.

3. It's filled with a lot of single player farmer noobies because of the mechanics of the instance. Easy prey.
Well the gold farmers are now moving to Crafting since it's obviously more profitable for them.


But Zerging is just stupid PvP. When Open PvP is added, I really hope there is somekind of respawn time limit implemented and you respawn at a Hub, instead of respawning and making like you didn't die at all. Then people would fight more carefully and actually use strategy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-10-2011, 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
I don't want any stupid battling over points every few minutes. Like a group of us takes a point in space and beam down and someone on the other side retakes that point. It just turns into somekind of C&H. So there needs to be a time period where control is retained. Else you're not going to have a battlefront, you're going to have a chaotic mess.
There are MMOs that have open world PvP encounters which "lock" for X amount of time (sometimes hours) once successfully captured. That's not an unreasonable request for a territorial gamemode.

Quote:
But Zerging is just stupid PvP. When Open PvP is added, I really hope there is somekind of respawn time limit implemented and you respawn at a Hub, instead of respawning and making like you didn't die at all. Then people would fight more carefully and actually use strategy.
Also in other MMOs they have it balanced so it's even number of players on both sides participating in the zone at one time. Unfortunately I don't know if that would work for STO considering there are a million more Feds then Klinks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-10-2011, 04:58 AM
Matteo asked Cryptic:

QUOTE
Q: matteo716: Is there a way to make pvp only/pve only gear so it cant be used in one or the other? is there a way to make bridge officer powers capable of this as well?



and Stahl says:

QUOTE
A: While we want all gear to be usable all the time, no matter the battlefield, we do hope to begin introducing items and gear that are more appropriate to PVE vs. PVP.



quoted from linty on our forums-

Kai Said:

Something something PvP PvE kits etc etc...

Stahl Said:

**** you Kai and the nebula you rode in on.

(thats how I read it)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-10-2011, 05:39 AM
I think PvP players suffer from the same condition that those who like raids suffer from...

whenever Cryptic introduces ANYTHING that not everyone can do with both eyes closed, people are whining and *****ing like there's no tomorrow... If there is ONE item or title in the game that any useless player can't obtain, there will be hell in the forums...

the real problem of course, is that Cryptic listenes to these people.. :p

For STFs, this means Cryptic stopped making more...
For PvP, this means no rewards can be given for winning... and PvP will not get anything until they can make something where noone gets hurt... :p

Cryptic really needs to man up.... If they really want this game to be democratic, they HAVE TO start catering to the larger groups of minorities. A democracy that only addresses the needs of the majority is no democracy at all! It's a tyranny of the majority!

THIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
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