Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
01-08-2011, 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawkorrr View Post
Isnt this how it was in SWG?

You could choose if you wanted to be attackable or not.
There were no "pvp-servers" if I am not mistaken.

Enable the PVP and fight other players
Disable the PVP and every players leaves you alone.
I personally have not played a wide variety of PVP type games, only a couple, so I admit my own experience is more limited than some. Of those I have played though, the PVP Option was set by the Server Software, and not by the Player making a choice.

In order to manage it in that type of envirement, they had to have Admin on or have volunteers to act as Server Police to manage people who wanted to go out and Blast Everyone else they saw. They became a nuisance that had to be managed in most cases. Some Children had to be Walked to School so they could Learn Their Lessons. To me, it was a shame.

IMHO, many people do not like PVP just because of that type of player.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
01-08-2011, 05:25 AM
SWG handles it currently this way:

Stage 1, you are noncombatant and are ignored by factional NPCs. It is the state you have when you come back from the dead. non factional NPCs can still attack you.

stage2 , combatant, what most people run as, you can attack and attack enemy faction npcs, lik police forces, military units etc.

Stage 3, Special Forces, open world wide pvp setting, you can be attacked by any member of the enemies special forces anywhere.

Switch between the stages you can do either via /pvp console command, but only from stage 1 to 2 to stage 3, and back to stage 2, but not stage 1. Alternatively you can visit a recruitment officer npc of your faction.
Switching from stag1 to 2 takes no time, switching to stage 3 from 2 takes 30 seconds, while switching from stage 3 to 2 takes 5 minutes. So no zipping by a pvp enabled player, kill him and be unattackable again. You have to wait 5 minutes.
And those 5 minutes even count after you logged out as special forces.

Then you have a little more intricacies like patrols can uncover you as belonging to a enemies faction and up your stage. from 1 to 2.
Plus you have open pvp zones where you can't even enter unless you are special forces, buffs from participating in the war effords and so on.


I see no reason something similar can't be done in STO.
I don't think anyone would want open pvp everywhere all the time, that would just get stupid really fast.
With the war zones we already have the basics of it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
01-08-2011, 05:50 AM
Flagging for PvP is stupid.

Just give us a sector block where there are different systems that you can enter that are all PvP instances, and where one side can take control from the other. Although they should have it so you can't take a system unless you have a link to it (kind of like in Planetside), so you can't just bypass all the fighting on the border and take a system deep in enemy space.

Have missions that take you into those systems with the warning that if you enter there it is an Open PvP zone. Maybe even have a special gear set (like Aegis/Borg) that requires going there.

If you don't want to PvP then you have the option of simply ignoring the area.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
01-08-2011, 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxbad
Unlikely that I'll ever see them. I doubt anyone will see open world PvP in StO as anything other than a vague promise intended to keep the Pro-PvP players subscribed. Based on this comment, I don't foresee a future where I ever renew my STO subscription.
Can I have your stuff?

j/k kinda :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
01-08-2011, 06:19 AM
The major problem with an area that is all PvP is not with the idea that is a good one, but with Cryptic's usual follow through.

An example:

Many people clamor for Fleet Actions, so much so that Cryptic writes and releases a few, albet still buggy STF's.

Attendance doesn't meet Cryptic's expectations so they add STF specific gear (the Borg bits) that you can only get by playing these (still bugged) missions "forcing" people to play them thus raising attendance.

Current PvP still uses this carrot on a stick approach with emblems and marks.

If they could resist baiting a PvP area or instance I would be all for it, but I doubt they could resist if the numbers aren't immediately there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
01-08-2011, 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxbad
Unlikely that I'll ever see them. I doubt anyone will see open world PvP in StO as anything other than a vague promise intended to keep the Pro-PvP players subscribed. Based on this comment, I don't foresee a future where I ever renew my STO subscription.
As long as we have zoned sectors it is quite possible to have an Open PvP sector like Stahl had talked about befor season 3 launch. This is the only reason I would like to keep sector space zones if this is the only way to open PvP. But even if they open up space to one big zone and leave small Open PvP zones for certain sectors I would feel good about that.

I trust that Dan or someone else on his staff is reading as many of these post in the forums and trying to work out how to impliment what we the playerbase desire without offending other players.

"The needs of the many outway the needs of the few" I think this is the best reason to open up the polls again to see what it is the player base is looking for. We haven't had a good poll in a while and I can think of a few things that could be polled, PvP is a big one!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
01-08-2011, 06:59 AM
I recommend a Launcher Poll to get as much player info as possible instead of a forum poll that only forum goers will be aware of.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
01-08-2011, 07:28 AM
A flaggign system will NOT work here.

Because the very nature of sector space ruins it. As long as we have sector space, in its current fashion. A flagging system will be an unworkable mess open to gaming and exploiting.

This is not a place you want to fight in. First of all you cant even fight there. Any combatants will be whisked off to a private instance removing them from sector space. That alone causes headaches. But while in sector space most of your abilities are locked out. movement speeds are altered, turn rates are reduced. And folks can pop in an out practically at will. by changing instances or going to their bridge. Just consider the number of alterations and changes that will have to be made to take any of that into account. And decide if its really worth it.

STO isnt SWG. Its not a place where you can simply roam around picking fights. There is no other game that has a system like sector space layered between transit movement and combat. And unless that layer is removed. Or there is a place folks can go to fight without sector space, being in the way. an open flagging type PVP system will be a horrible mess.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
01-08-2011, 07:31 AM
Actually, a flagging system might be the workaround for an Open pvP Sector.

Pretty much anywhere on the map has some desired system that might be used one day. In order to allow PvErs to have safe passage, we might just need a flagging system to address this quirk.

Granted, if STO weren't a pre-existing IP, we'd have all the universe as real estate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
01-08-2011, 07:47 AM
There are different types of PVP and the last thing I want to see is a Eve type gankfest where high levels take great delight in ganking new players, mostly because they don't have the guts to take on anyone their own level. These are often the players who have to cyno in a carrier on top of their 15 player attack force just to take on a couple of battleships and then say "adapt or die" on the forums. Also the policy where spawn points are camped and anyone entering has to run the gauntlet, random spawn in points should really be used in this case.

The biggest problem with open world PVP is the level difference. Anywhere that high levels can one shot new players is a place that end up being dominated by end game players which leaves the low levels out of PVP. If it has a 3 level limit so that you are prevented from attacking anyone 3 levels higher or lower than yourself, it might stand a chance, at least low levels would have a chance to play the game there.

Why only 3 levels? Simply because that many skill points can mean the difference between +1 to your weapon type or +9 which is one hell of a damage difference. Other skills would also apply here.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a bit of PVP as much as anyone else, what I dislike is the dishonourable 3 onto 1 fights because the other player is too chicken to take me on solo. In Eve, there were few honourable types and I had the honour to fight one or two who told their corp buddies to stay out of it and let me go if I won. It was fun and I'd do it again anytime and thesse are the type of players that make the game fun to play, even if you do lose.
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