Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
01-12-2011, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FizixMan View Post
Talking about the Galaxy-X spinal lance specifically, I don't think it would be feasible to keep it as overpowered as depicted in All Good Things for STO and have it balanced by giving Klingons a special shield/armour. Simply because Cryptic would have to give all Klingons this counter (BoP, Vor'cha, Negh'Var, etc.) to deal with this one, relatively rare, optional Fed ship and its special power. (plus would this mean Klingons could use this special shield/armour/counter on normal enemies as well?)

I think having it be treated kinda like a bonus Beam Overload (with piercing) is a pretty reasonable compromise/depiction/interpretation of the weapon from the TV episode.
Good point.

Your suggestion is also reasonable. I would just add, the Klingons can just learn to deal with
it, that ship turns with the same degree of movement as Earths tectonic plates. The rare time a Klingon would be within its firing radius, hope he has some hull heals on standby!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
01-12-2011, 12:09 PM
I agree with the OP, having a cookie cutter fit leaves you with only the choice of which ship you want to fly. Until you do the Borg missions, you fit Aegis. That means every RA lower up to 3 is using Aegis and every one over that is using Borg. That doesn't do a lot for diversity since Aegis gear is lame compared to Borg, everyone upgrades at the first chance.

I would prefer to see a lot more sets at different levels, right down to LC1, with different bonuses and faction specific too. This shoud include sets of Tac, Eng, Sci modules (1 of each to make a set to get the bonus). While this might take a bit more time due to balance issues, it would mean that you won't be able to know in advance what the other player has fitted. Also some sets crafted, some given as mission rewards and some as ultra rare random drops. Obviously, the best bonuses are from the ultra rare drops so if you want them, be prepared to do some serious farming. However, make the ultra rare drops account bound so players will have to do their own farming and not be able to make gazillions of EC on the exchange selling them.

Ultra Rare:
*Will only drop your level mods from mobs -2 up, no lower level mods will drop and they will not drop from very low level mobs. (So don't bother farming for your lowbie alt and don't try to get them from -25 mobs)

*Account bound on pickup so you can hand them down when you outgrow them. (Hey, it takes a while to farm them OK? Also, you may have outgrown them already with all that farming )

*Possibility of gaining strength with you so you can use them at +1 higher level, (dependant on balance issues). This means a mod that gives +25% now may give +35% when you rank up but still only gives 35% when you rank up again, (figures used just for example, not actual values).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
01-12-2011, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
Your suggestion is also reasonable.
Pardon me, what suggestion did I make? I pretty much just reiterated what was already implemented.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
01-12-2011, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FizixMan View Post
Pardon me, what suggestion did I make? I pretty much just reiterated what was already implemented.
You're an interesting person....

To answer the question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FizixMan View Post
Beam Overload (with piercing)
Which is NOT what we have now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
01-12-2011, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
Balance could very easily come from unveiling the unknown. Example, instead of gimping the Galaxy X
(a ship featured in the final TNG episode and shown to have blown holes straight through a fully shielded
Klingon T5 ship) why not counter that with a shield or hull armor or something else unique to the Klingons.
Those weren't PC klingons they were tier 3 NPCs from a deep space encounter started by the Pastur. Admiral Riker was just showing off in a low level instance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
01-12-2011, 01:31 PM
I will say this regarding "balance"...I despise the idea that "balance" requires equality/copy & paste attributes across both sides.

Balance is best sought through diversity, different weakness and strengths applied as faction specific/uniqueness...but I do feel "balance" is required in this game. The reaosn being, you can't allow players the option to choose different sides, while leavin one faction a second class citizen by relegating it to cannon fodder, while the other is lifted to the level of God's chosen with a beat-stick. The benefits of being the story arc "hero" can't apply here because STO isn't a Fed story arc...its a STO universe story arc, we need relativly equal access to being the "hero".

Now I do agree that STO combat is too heavy determined by skills sets and specials and their relentless spam...but the differences, because we need the faction specifci differences and uniqueness, must ultimatley result in being equal when taken collectivly. Yes, one attribute shall be better than the same attribute for other side, yes their may be some abilities the other side can't do...but after you tally them all up and compare their impacts side to side, there must be balance.

In the end, the ability of one side to roll over the other needs to come from the Captains...why? Because I think that i smore cannon than saying the Feds should be inheritently better than the KDF. I dont believe Trek has necessarily demonstrated any innate superiority of the Feds over the KDF...I believe Trek has demonstrated the superiorty of specifc crews, who were show cased in the shows/movies, as being superior to their opponents.

We rarely saw Fed threats laid to waste by superior hostile crews, because then there would be no show, no movie. We rarely got to see the many Fed ships that would have just as likly been steam rolled by superior crews for the hostile factions.

The defeat of the Borg after Wolf 359 didn't show case the supriority of the Federation, it actually show cased the rather prevalent existance of just mediocre/regular crews and starships at the time...the defeat of the Borg was at the hands of a single resourcful and superior crew within Starfleet....one of hundreds.

Not every Intrepid class crew would have made it through the Delta Quadrant...it wasn't Starfleet tech or abilit that got Voyager through...it was the exceptional crew...and not all Fed ships are crewed by such exceptional groups of men and women.

Ultimatly, the crews in teh shows/movies and us the player in STO is what would set one ship a part from the rest as "superior"...and nothing else. It would be he who best utilized the strengths of his vessel at the expense of his opponent's weakness that would most likly be victorious.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
01-12-2011, 02:53 PM
I tend to agree, some balance is fine, but there is a tendency to go overboard and balance the fun right out of something in games.
I am not pointing fingers at Cryptic specificly, but mmo companies in general.

If people are getting one shot by someone who is not wearing any gear then fine balance that, but let's not balance the fun right out the other side in the process to.

Not everything has to be completely equal, it is just too unrealistic to expect both sides or any faction to be exactly the same it is also just boring when everyone is exactly the same.

I would love to see some faction unique items such as klingon stf sets and fed stf sets and crafting items.

The klingons need all the help they can get and the game will be all the more worthwhile to get away from the for lack of a better words "cookie cutter" gear and so forth.
More work sure, I am not unsympathetic to that, but the factions really do need to feel a little more unique.

Not that there is anything wrong with copy and paste in some situations, but set items and the like really do need to be unique if anything at least in overall appearence.

The klingons do their own thing, they should look like a separate faction in more than just ships and costumes, even their gear needs that klingon flavor for both space and ground.

For example: where are the painsticks?
Another example: where are the rifles with beyonnets for the klingons?

All I am saying is, that for each item in the game, it would be nice to see a faction variant of them to enhance the overall challenge factor and to really enhance the feel of each faction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
01-12-2011, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FizixMan View Post
Beam Overload (with piercing)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
Which is NOT what we have now.
I thought it was essentially a forward phaser beam shot that does massive damage (like hitting an enemy crab's weak point for massive damage!), can hit multiple targets if they're in-line, and in addition, it significantly drops your weapon power. That sounds a lot like beam overload with piercing. Since I don't actually own a Galaxy-X, perhaps I was mistaken about how the power works...


EDIT: Well, sounds like I was pretty much spot-on. Except it also fires twice:
http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Phaser_Spinal_Lance

How is that not similar to ("kinda like") a piercing beam overload?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
01-12-2011, 03:12 PM
To be fair, AZ is banging his head against the same Klingons vs Feds wall I used to.

Fact is the only way to prove to anyone that Klingon ships are awesomer than Feds is to have them fly them as the Klingon players aren't telling and get very abusive about that insinuation. They feel it's all about their experience as players that make them so good.

I'm thinking they may not have flown their Fed ships for awhile.

A simple example is a Fed Escort vs a BoP maneuvering only.

I can drift my BoP, my Escort appears to have all wheel drive and will not drift. To be fair my Raptor doesn't either.

Add to that the fact you can put DHC's on everything Klingon and I can see that I was very right about the "balance" of the factions.

For now my friend I would recommend just playing the Klingon ships and save yourself some grief.

I'm hoping some day some of the staff will revisit Fed ships and give the Assault Cruiser the Excelsiors capabilities and maybe give my Defiant Refit drift.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
01-12-2011, 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FizixMan View Post
I thought it was essentially a forward phaser beam shot that does massive damage (like hitting an enemy crab's weak point for massive damage!), can hit multiple targets if they're in-line, and in addition, it significantly drops your weapon power. That sounds a lot like beam overload with piercing. Since I don't actually own a Galaxy-X, perhaps I was mistaken about how the power works...


EDIT: Well, sounds like I was pretty much spot-on. Except it also fires twice:
http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Phaser_Spinal_Lance

How is that not similar to ("kinda like") a piercing beam overload?
I really do not wish to take the OPs thread off topic nor do I wish to debate with you.

Suffice it to say, my experience using the Galaxy X with Beam Overload III results in nothing
more than a glorified light show with no damage to the enemy worthy of comment.

I'll take a suggestion from you, I'll take the Galaxy X, reload the mission with the astroid field
and see just how effective a weapon it is agaist a stationary rock. I'll have a nice little
video where you can see first hand, how useless it is.
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