Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
01-13-2011, 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Chill
Wasn't it the greatest strength of The Borg to adapt and learn from each encounter to eventually overtake their opponent? Did The Borg just stop adapting?
Yeah, it really seems as if this was at some point forgotten.

They couldn't adapt to the Undine in Voyager. I can accept that. It might take them some time, and when the Borg get killed off too quickly, they imgh tnot survive. But the Voyager was able to find a way to attack the Undine with Borg tech, the Borg should figure this out, too.

But then, players complain about the Assimilation mission where the Borg finally found a way to assimilate Species 8472. Did you forget that that's what the Borg do? Adapt?

Voyager did a lot of harm to the Borg. Villain decay at its best... I hope that Cryptic will rework them at some point to at least make them feel a little more threatening then they are now, but I don't have that high hopes. It might very well be that the Cryptic engine just couldn't handle it gracefully.

Quote:
You are right... the Borg in this game don't match up to the Borg in the series. That's the difference between making a game and a TV show/movie. However, that's not to say the Borg couldn't be improved upon but making them the one-shot super enemies of the series would not make make for a better gameplay experience.
They would already go a long way if they made Spheres, Probes and 3rd smaller type of ship the "standard" enemy to fight.

Currently, NPCs have ships in the following categories.
  • Frigate (Probe; Miranda; Bird of Prey)
  • Escort/Cruiser/ScienceVessel (Sphere; Prometheus, Sovereign, Luna; Raptor, Vor'cha)
  • Battleship (Cube; wha****nametheshipeveryonewantsbutme; Neg'var)
  • Dreadnought (Tactical Cube; Jupiter; Carrier)
Add something between probe and Sphere, making the Sphere a Battleship. Cube becomes a Dreadnought, and Tactical Cube becomes something like the Crystalline Entity - only found in rare instances.

Also, once this has been done, I'd add a general class of "boss" ship logic, primarily used for Dreadnoughts, but also otherships.

Basically, this "boss" ship has the ability to engage mutliple targets at once. It can't focus the firepower it has on one single target, it has to spread them around. It might also have a mechanic for disabling particular subsystems (either targeted by players or simply triggered based on hit point state). That way we could more accurately model stuff like t he Crystalline Entity, Borg Cubes and Space Stations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
01-13-2011, 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Chill
When The Borg debuted in STTNG back n the day they were nearly an unstoppable force. They laid waste to entire fleets of the ships and were the most ruthless adversary the Star Trek universe had ever seen. Fast forward to the present day and The Borg are almost laughable. Single ships taking out Borg cubes. Hell the Klingons are more powerful than The Borg. Now I know The Borg can't be as unstoppable and difficult as they once were especially in a game format but seriously they should be a lot more of a threat than what they currently are. Just my two cents.
Im guessing you haven't done an STF ?

The borg are far from laughable in them, they are more the unstoppable force you want, go join a pickup group in gamma orionis then come back and say they are patheticly easy
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
01-13-2011, 07:55 AM
Undine. Any species that can destroy a Borg cube in one shot, effectively preventing any chance of assimilation, can be considered an unopposable foe for the Borg.

The Borg are less of a threat in the 25th century because the technology gap has narrowed. Starfleet R&D went ballistic on attempting to counter the Borg threat. It is safe to assume that the other powers would do likewise (as evidenced in at least one STO storyarc). The conflict in this region would also accelerate the developement of military technology.
The Borg on the other hand only gain what they absorb, they do not truely innovate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
01-13-2011, 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranman1988 View Post
Well, the Borg went downhill after Star Trek Voyager. Really downhill. Basically they went from striking fear into the hearts and minds to the state you see them now in that series. So to answer your question, I guess the Undine would win out since the Undine were practically wiping the floor with the Borg in Voyager.
Actually the Undine are in my opinion solely responsible for the decline on the borg image.

The opening scene in the episode which introduce the Undine was amazing when it first aired because it was a squadron of borg cubes being destroyed effortlessly by an unknown force. And it set the tone for the rest of that episode which was essentially "wow, we are so screwed that the borg may be the lesser evil".

The trouble is once that happened the borg could never again engender the amount of fear they did previously so subsequent Voyager episodes had a hard time dealing with them, and pretty much botched it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
01-13-2011, 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtlewing View Post
The trouble is once that happened the borg could never again engender the amount of fear they did previously so subsequent Voyager episodes had a hard time dealing with them, and pretty much botched it.
To be fair, Voyager did have Seven of Nine who provided Janeway et al with valuable tactical information. Future Janeway used this knowledge to great effect as we saw in "Endgame" with the shielding/weapons/tactics she helped develop specifically to use against the Borg.

I would agree that Borg episodes between Scorpion and Endgame did make the Borg out to be a little dorky though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
01-13-2011, 08:13 AM
I think a good number of the NPCs could be harder in some ways and be more balanced. I would also agree with this statement said about the Borg.

BUT

Do it right. No more of this Breen 360 Sub-nucleonic arc. No more of this every three to five second Borg shield device nonsense. No more of the Borg neural netralizer stacking because cooldown is instant crap..... And the 60k super plasma torps put me off a bit too.

Ya know? Just do it right, not with cheating NPCs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
01-13-2011, 09:56 AM
Eh, the real reason why the Borg are somewhat easy (outisde of an STF anyway) to deal with is because they haven't invented the mission scripting tool yet that incorporate the "HERO FACTOR" from a TV show into a video game.

TV writers are allowed to have the main characters pull trek-magic out of their butts in the last 8 minutes of every episode. Unfortunately, video games don't work the same way.

Lets be honest - If the Borg were allowed to be as bad@ss as they were described to be in TNG, after the first TNG episode where they were introduced, the show would of had to change its name from "Star Trek: The Next Generation" to "Borg: Prepare To Be Assimilated."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
01-13-2011, 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meehee View Post
Im guessing you haven't done an STF ?

The borg are far from laughable in them, they are more the unstoppable force you want, go join a pickup group in gamma orionis then come back and say they are patheticly easy

yeah I was just thinking this..I really wish I had recorded the vent session I was in a couple weeks back...the screams of my group getting their ass handed to them was quite memorable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
01-13-2011, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
To be fair, Voyager did have Seven of Nine who provided Janeway et al with valuable tactical information. Future Janeway used this knowledge to great effect as we saw in "Endgame" with the shielding/weapons/tactics she helped develop specifically to use against the Borg.

I would agree that Borg episodes between Scorpion and Endgame did make the Borg out to be a little dorky though.
Mostly It seems to me like once the Undine were introduced the Borg could never again be as scary as they were before. After all they were helpless against the Undine until Voyager saved them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
01-13-2011, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
Undine would, hands down.

.
Right there you proved to everyone that you dont know what you are talking about.


And btw Borg weakness ? Remember that is only in this game. Plis remember STO is not canon.
Just because you can kill the "Borg" easy in the borg encounters in gamma doesnt mean they are weak in the "real" STAR TREK univers . How fast doesnt the Undine die in terradome except from the Boss.Does this make them weak in ST lore what ever to ? The Borg still adapts to everything and wipe out planets, the Undine do not. After the crew on Voyager helped the borg defeat the Undine i guess the Borg have no real enemys.The only reason the federation can beat the borg is simpel, no federation no more STAR TREK HUH.
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