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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 451
02-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpieri View Post
That's where Cryptic comes in.
And does what? Puts off putting ships in the game that people have seen on screen and want to fly in favor of spending that time designing brand new other faction ships that could promptly be shot down by CBS and may not even be flown because they never appeared in the show?

There are like 10 Federation hero ships, never mind all the supporting ones. I can only come up with four Klingon ships I have even seen on screen total.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 452
02-01-2011, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotD
And does what? Puts off putting ships in the game that people have seen on screen and want to fly in favor of spending that time designing brand new other faction ships that could promptly be shot down by CBS and may not even be flown because they never appeared in the show?

There are like 10 Federation hero ships, never mind all the supporting ones. I can only come up with four Klingon ships I have even seen on screen total.
You are aware of the Cyptic ships in the game, so it seems they can be passed by CBS. So you must be saying that Cryptic lacks imagination because several developers had no trouble creating several different ships for their games.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 453
02-01-2011, 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpieri View Post
You are aware of the Cyptic ships in the game, so it seems they can be passed by CBS. So you must be saying that Cryptic lacks imagination because several developers had no trouble creating several different ships for their games.
No, I'm saying that there is a massive discrepancy and that resources are limited.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 454
02-01-2011, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksparrowjive55 View Post
There is a new "remastered" episode on Tribble ATM where depending on your class, you get different objectives in the mission. Thats great and all, but maybe before you worry about creating content for every different CLASS you should actually finish one of the game's FACTION's?
Yaaay! I love class-specific content. More more more! I want class-specific minigames. Klingons can have Klingon specific minigames, like getting drunk and bragging about PvP kills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 455
02-01-2011, 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Um Half is universal? Wha?

I'm playing both, so I can do this. I'm calling Shenanigans. Each Race has it's own missions. (enough so to get them through more than 1/4th of the leveling experience before having to move to new areas of their faction.) .
You'll notice I said half of each 'expansion'. I wasn't talking about new character levelling. You'll notice, for example, that in Mount Hyjal, Horde and Alliance do the exact same quests from the exact same quest givers. In Vashj'ir, they have seperate quests and bases. In Deepholm, they have the same quests, from the same questgivers. In Twilight Highlands, there are portions that are Horde or Alliance specific, and portions that are the same for both. In Uldum, its the exact same quests, from the exact same quest givers. All of the dungeons and raids are identical for both factions.

I could do the same for the other two expansions. More than half is universal content. Every time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 456
02-01-2011, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonseye View Post
Toss in that not all Klingons see themselves as "villains."
That is really a red herring and irrelevant to the discussion. In the Star Trek IP, outside this game, the Federation is the dominant focus and they are the good guys. The relative interest in the two factions reflects this.

In ********: Orcs v. Humans, the Humans are pretty clearly the good guys.

In superhero games, obviously villains are villains.

The fact that, for example, Doctor Doom thinks he's the good guy is completely irrelevant to anything. We're talking about the IPS as a whole.

In Star Trek, the Federation is the protagonist, other races, species, individuals, situations that are encountered are various forms of antagonist. It doesn't mean they're evil. It means that in the writing of the fiction, the Federation is who you were intended to identify with. And Star Trek did that successfully, such that most of the fans, and most of the players of this game, identify with the Federation more than the Klingons. Just like they identify with the human kingdoms and their stalwart dwarven and elven allies than they do with cannibal trolls and the undead. Just like they identify more with Superman than Lex Luthor, and more with Batman than the Joker.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 457
02-01-2011, 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpieri View Post
You are aware of the Cyptic ships in the game, so it seems they can be passed by CBS. So you must be saying that Cryptic lacks imagination because several developers had no trouble creating several different ships for their games.
The problem is that this game has an IP. A big part of the fun I have playing a Klingon, for example, comes from flying Klingon ships that I've seen on the TV and movie screen, creating a Klingon captain and crew that resemble in some ways the characters I've enjoyed in the Star Trek IP, and being surrounded, as much as possible, by authentic looking settings, ships, etc.

Lets say they come out with the Romulan faction, and because they've only got a couple of uniforms and three or four ships, they invent a ton more. So I roll my Romulan...and most of my costume options aren't ones that I've ever seen before. And most of the ships I captain look nothing like the Romulan ships that I thought were cool that made me want to play a Romulan. And the beings/creatures around me when I'm in Romulan space are mostly non-canon as well...I don't really get the experience of playing a Romulan, do I?

I actually like a lot of Cryptic's designs on Fed ships, for example. But as a Trek fan, I get a much bigger thrill out of captaining canon vessels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 458
02-01-2011, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquizitor View Post
Which market did they research?
I wasn't privy to their selection criteria; the folks doing the research weren't homeless guys they hired in the park however, they were professionals with experience in conducting market research.

Quote:
Explain how Factions in other MMO's will be more or less equal while this one is not.
Games based on an IP that's dominated by one faction tend toward more play by that faction. This isn't the only game that's discovered that, whether before or after launch. Hell, it's the third time Cryptic's been in that boat. City of Heroes/City of Villains populations settled very quickly into mostly heroes, and it wasn't a huge surprise because comic books did the same and comics fans are the market. For Champions Online they didn't make a villains faction at all at launch, because experience and market research showed it would get less play.

If you don't want Cryptic examples, there's Lord of the Rings Online. The books are about the good guys; the game focuses on the good guys.

There have been 30 seasons of Star Trek series episodes about the Federation. There have been zero where the Klingons as a whole were the protagonists, and where a Klingon was a main character, they've always been Klingons in Starfleet. That's the market.

Quote:
Doesn't really take that much market research to figure this out. Factions that are more or less equal have similar numbers.
Except in City of Heroes/Villains.

Quote:
Also, the part I bolded is the most absurd thing I've heard in a long time. How is PvP on the Klingon side fun and different from what the Federation is doing?
Cloaking devices don't change how you play? The performance characteristics of the BoP don't change how you play? The carrier isn't different play?

Quote:
Furthermore, what am I supposed to be thanking them for? Work that does not meet my expectations?
They're exceeding reasonable expectations. If yours are not reasonable, that's not their fault.

Quote:
Then how the hell are thy planning on selling a Romulan expansion when those numbers are probably even lower than the Klingons numbers? Who would buy it?
Why shouldn't the Romulan fans bear the financial burden of providing what they want? Why should the majority who don't care about playing Romulans bear that burden?

Mind you, your quote above is a straw man, since they haven't announced any for-pay Romulan expansion. In fact they've said there will be no Romulan faction until they expand the Klingons to full PvE, which isn't their primary focus since 8 times as many people benefit from Federation content additions. It'll be a long time before they even think about making a Romulan faction. I am totally in favor of them doing that, as long as they don't unduly reduce the amount of development attention to the faction the vast majority of the players want.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 459
02-01-2011, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
I think this is pretty much stating the obvious at this point. However, if you go by the logic that number of players = how much content a faction should have, that would mean Roms should have even less content than Klingons, and any other factions have even less content than that. If your using that logic, that is.
I wouldn't say they should have less content; just that a lot more time should be taken to release them.

The Federation faction reached its launch state in two years; it should take longer than that for Klingons to reach the same level of content, and even longer for Romulans. Otherwise the Federation is being shorted on development time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 460
02-01-2011, 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotD
And does what? Puts off putting ships in the game that people have seen on screen and want to fly in favor of spending that time designing brand new other faction ships that could promptly be shot down by CBS and may not even be flown because they never appeared in the show?
There is at least one case documented by Zinc on these forums where a canon ship was delayed in release and a Cryptic-designed ship released first instead, because CBS approved the Cryptic design after a lot fewer cycles of submission/rejection with notes/resubmission than with the canon ship. Said canon ship (I want to say it was the Nebula, but I could be remembering wrong) was in fact rejected by CBS again the day before it was scheduled to load.

There is also the fact that every Star Trek series has introduced new ships, not just flown around the old ones again, and this game has the second longest time gap from the previous "series" in Star Trek history, behind TNG. Of course there are going to be new ships at the forefront; that's how Star Trek has done it since they changed the Constitution-Class Enterprise for the 1978 movie.
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