Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Rethinking Rank=Sash
01-22-2011, 11:09 AM
I was killing tribbles in the Azlesa as I often do when I need to clear my mind and think...

It hit me then that sashes in Klingon culture are not simply a symbol of rank, but often are the place of choice to show off ones house affiliation. Think back to when Worf joins the House of Martok in "Soldiers of the Empire", where does he place the house emblem? On his sash.

Furthermore, the individual sash does not seem to represent a specific rank. we've even seen Officers of the KDF not wearing sashes despite holding ranks like Captain or Commander and yet they do not wear sashes (see Commander Kruge, Captain Koloth, Captain Kargan), and yet there are lowly Lt. like Klag who do wear the sash.

Add to this confusion the fact that there are now Orion, Gorn, Nausicaan and a plethora of "others" fighting under the KDF umbrella. Currently their only way to show their rank on their uniform is through the use of rank-sashes.

What I propose is that insignia be designed for all the ranks that is separate from the sashes, and likewise sashes be designed that incorporate these rank insignia on to them. I'm not suggesting we scrap the current sashes that are in game, but I am suggesting that when the art team has time we supplement them.

Thoughts?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-22-2011, 11:34 AM
I'm all for a change here. I never liked sashes representing rank, especially when its not canon. It doesn't really work on non-Klingons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-22-2011, 11:49 AM
Well I know many of us would love to see the cloak or even the something like the Commander Kruge's "stole" as Memory Alpha calls it. I'd also love to hear and see more about what's supposed to happen with these special Vet shoulder pads we got and their grow as you go ability.

But I think of all of that as more "costume" options than signs of rank, and the more I think about it the more I think that the KDF with its foreign allies needs a more distinct rank insignia system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-23-2011, 10:42 AM
As much as I would like this, it takes them ages to make the simplest changes to KDF uniforms and characters, let alone add new components.

If they start right now, they might be able to finish this feature by 2072. It takes a while for the Drinking Bird to get it done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-23-2011, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasGideon
As much as I would like this, it takes them ages to make the simplest changes to KDF uniforms and characters, let alone add new components.

If they start right now, they might be able to finish this feature by 2072. It takes a while for the Drinking Bird to get it done.
Regardless I figure it is worth asking... maybe they'll consider something once we finally get those Gorn updates.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-23-2011, 02:50 PM
I always thought the rank would be represented by the small round discs on the leather collar - I'm sure you remember, one on each side with a runic symbol inside?

That said, Klingons likely do not have as many ranks as Starfleet (despite copying the number of ranks in STO for gameplay purposes), so their rank system would be pretty simple. The crew knows each other well enough to not need any insignia, and outside that other people only need to know who's the Captain. This might be the purpose of the "officer coat", as this is an optional addition usually only worn outside the ship (and it does feature another, larger set of symbols).

Remember how it was in the series? Where only the boss would wear something special? :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-23-2011, 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I always thought the rank would be represented by the small round discs on the leather collar - I'm sure you remember, one on each side with a runic symbol inside?

That said, Klingons likely do not have as many ranks as Starfleet (despite copying the number of ranks in STO for gameplay purposes), so their rank system would be pretty simple. The crew knows each other well enough to not need any insignia, and outside that other people only need to know who's the Captain. This might be the purpose of the "officer coat", as this is an optional addition usually only worn outside the ship (and it does feature another, larger set of symbols).

Remember how it was in the series? Where only the boss would wear something special? :p
From the shows and movies I always got the impression that the KDF didn't care much for displays of rank, but that being said, the KDF in STO has Orions, Gorns, Nausicaans and a bunch of "others" in it, so I could see them making the ranks and structure of rank far more clear. I don't see the classic Klingon sash as the appropriate means of doing that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-23-2011, 03:26 PM
Well, the only other species likely having a use for military ranks would be the Gorn.

I do not believe the KDF is working as closely with its allies as the game makes you think they would, anyways. Were STO a TV show, every species would have its own ships and crews, though they'd probably use KDF ranks when addressing each other just to know who is superior to whom. Kind of like the NATO works.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-23-2011, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Well, the only other species likely having a use for military ranks would be the Gorn.

I do not believe the KDF is working as closely with its allies as the game makes you think they would, anyways. Were STO a TV show, every species would have its own ships and crews, though they'd probably use KDF ranks when addressing each other just to know who is superior to whom. Kind of like the NATO works.
I would agree with you in principle, but in practice my experience as an Orion, Gorn or Nausicaan takes me to the Klingon Chancellor for a promotion. While I'd love to get my promotion from the King of the Gorn Hegemony, I don't see that happening, so I'll settle for the Dev team giving me rank insignia not attached to a sash.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-23-2011, 05:53 PM
Being one that has made real Klingon costumes for convetions and such, theres more to this.
Rank is worn on ones collar One pin denotes service branch , navy or marines and the other rank.
Sashes are a symbol of ones house and can be used to display awards and medals.
Commander Kruge's "stole" is properly refered to as a Battle Cloak. For example on my real uniform
on the right side of my collar armor would be the service branch in my case Klingon Navy, and on the left my rank in that case commander. For reference go to the site Klingonspace many examples of accurate
costumes are there. And yes there are alot of variations. My pics are there too.
anyone interested in learning more about Klingons should join the club I'm a member of
The Klingon Assault Group. We do conventions, community events and such. And we even have a webpage on which to learn the Klingon Language.


Qapla' batlh je!
Marok
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