Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-25-2011, 07:40 PM
Also note that the Fed escorts have a shield bonus over the Raptor (8% for the Fleet/Advanced escort, 13% for Defiant-R)

I'd say the Defiant-R and other Federation escorts are fairly comparable to the Raptor. Maybe tweaks here or there, but I think it's on the side of splitting hairs compared to other class comparisons.

Perhaps the solution isn't to compare the Fed escorts & Defiant-R to BoPs; perhaps Feds should get another ship style altogether that's unique compared to Klingons. Cruisers & escorts have equal comparisons (more or less) on both sides. Klingons have BoPs and carriers while Feds have science. I have no idea what that ship would be, or what role it would fill to "balance" PvP.

Just to be clear, I'm not necessarily siding one way or the other. Personally, I don't have any issues with PvP as it is and haven't been convinced by a compelling argument on the issue from either side of the debate. I'm just throwing out ideas to consider -- even though I'm sure they already have been in one thread or another.

Unless convinced otherwise, I'm all for maintaining the status-quo. I also recognize that individuals who are happy about that status-quo aren't likely to voice their opinions on it, so it's difficult to gage general player feelings on the issue based on forum interactions or anecdotal evidence. If people thought STO played like how players describe it on the forums, then they'd think it was be a pretty crappy game that apparently, only a relatively low percentage of players actually enjoyed.


EDIT: GT01, I think AZSteel was just listing out the differing factors between the two faction's T5 escorts. Though he'd probably do well to edit it into his opening post (along with other relevant information) as often times new readers of the thread will only read the opening post and not the subsequent pages of discussion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-25-2011, 07:54 PM
I guess so, yeah.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-27-2011, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FizixMan View Post
Also note that the Fed escorts have a shield bonus over the Raptor (8% for the Fleet/Advanced escort, 13% for Defiant-R)

I'd say the Defiant-R and other Federation escorts are fairly comparable to the Raptor. Maybe tweaks here or there, but I think it's on the side of splitting hairs compared to other class comparisons.

Perhaps the solution isn't to compare the Fed escorts & Defiant-R to BoPs; perhaps Feds should get another ship style altogether that's unique compared to Klingons. Cruisers & escorts have equal comparisons (more or less) on both sides. Klingons have BoPs and carriers while Feds have science. I have no idea what that ship would be, or what role it would fill to "balance" PvP.

Just to be clear, I'm not necessarily siding one way or the other. Personally, I don't have any issues with PvP as it is and haven't been convinced by a compelling argument on the issue from either side of the debate. I'm just throwing out ideas to consider -- even though I'm sure they already have been in one thread or another.

Unless convinced otherwise, I'm all for maintaining the status-quo. I also recognize that individuals who are happy about that status-quo aren't likely to voice their opinions on it, so it's difficult to gage general player feelings on the issue based on forum interactions or anecdotal evidence. If people thought STO played like how players describe it on the forums, then they'd think it was be a pretty crappy game that apparently, only a relatively low percentage of players actually enjoyed.


EDIT: GT01, I think AZSteel was just listing out the differing factors between the two faction's T5 escorts. Though he'd probably do well to edit it into his opening post (along with other relevant information) as often times new readers of the thread will only read the opening post and not the subsequent pages of discussion.
Correct, I am merely highlighting the differences between two very common, very popular PvP Escort vessels. I chose the BoP because it is the one I most see in the rear view mirror!

I try to avoid editing the 1st post, to retain chain of custody so to speak but what is it you are suggesting I should add to it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-27-2011, 10:51 AM
Eh, there's no issues to the "chain of custody" as long as you edit it properly (make your edits at the end of your post, stick a date on them, possibly link to the subsequent posts instead). You could mention, "I want this to be a discussion comparing the inbalances between Fed Escorts and BoP (not Raptors)" or expand it to "properly compare escorts vs escorts and here are their stats:" as per the thread title. Otherwise new posters might get the wrong idea that we've spent the past 2 pages correcting.

However, I still think the discussion would be better served by rewriting the opening post to more accurately describe your thoughts, factor in the corrections raised, throw it in the PvP boards, and letting this one fade away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-27-2011, 11:18 AM
The Qin Heavy Raptor and Tactical Escort Retrofit are very similar vessels. The only differences are as follows:

Shields
Heavy Raptor: 83.3% (would be 7,076 with Covariant Mk X [Cap]x3)
Retrofit Escort: 90% (would be 7,642 with Covariant Mk X [Cap]x3)

Hull
Heavy Raptor: 33,300
Retrofit Escort: 30,000

Eng consoles
Heavy Raptor: 3
Retrofit Escort: 2

Turn Rate
Heavy Raptor: 15
Retrofit Escort: 17

Crew
Heavy Raptor: 200
Retrofit Escort: 50

Its close, but I'd say the Raptor is marginally better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-27-2011, 11:31 AM
^^^^^^^^

lol, See AZSteel? This is what I was talking about. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-27-2011, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zutty View Post
The Qin Heavy Raptor and Tactical Escort Retrofit are very similar vessels. The only differences are as follows:

Shields
Heavy Raptor: 83.3% (would be 7,076 with Covariant Mk X [Cap]x3)
Retrofit Escort: 90% (would be 7,642 with Covariant Mk X [Cap]x3)

Hull
Heavy Raptor: 33,300
Retrofit Escort: 30,000

Eng consoles
Heavy Raptor: 3
Retrofit Escort: 2

Turn Rate
Heavy Raptor: 15
Retrofit Escort: 17

Crew
Heavy Raptor: 200
Retrofit Escort: 50

Its close, but I'd say the Raptor is marginally better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FizixMan View Post
^^^^^^^^

lol, See AZSteel? This is what I was talking about. :p
His form factor is different but the point is the same as my first post (excluding ships chosen for comparison) and that is to list two ships side by side and compare them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-27-2011, 12:41 PM
I know, that's my point. He took the time to compare the Defiant-R and the Raptors which you have already done. Had this information been added to the opening post as an addendum then it would have prevented Zutty's unnecessary duplication of work.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-27-2011, 12:48 PM
Yes but then this would be someone elses thread.
I am comparing the two ships I see fit to compare, not the ones someone else sees fit to compare.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-27-2011, 01:04 PM
That was my other point. If you want this thread to be comparing/discussing only Defiant-R vs BoP exclusively, then you should edit your opening post to indicate that. Otherwise you might have people like Zutty coming in and further discussing other escorts as per your thread title and opening post content.


EDIT: I see you edited your opening post. Though perhaps your intent could be made clearer, hopefully that should help prevent tangent discussions in the future.
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