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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Torpedoes are often overlooked due to their seemingly unfavorable statistics. (dps) I aim to elucidate the doubters of the mathematcially undeniable superiority of torpedoes in set circumstances.
First a few simple definitions

damage here i refer to the actual number given in tooltip, shown in () in combat log

dps= damage calculated over a time interval. the tooltip weapon stat dps lists the damage/ that individual weapons cycle time.

bleedthrough= the unmodified (by shield resist) raw 1/10 (or 1/20 for some shields) damage from an attack that penetrates shields and hits hull directly (this is then modified by the hull resists)

kinetic shield damge this damage is mitigated by a flat 25% (+ other resistance buffs that mod shield damage are then applied after)

Damage Overage This is the post shields damage (not bleed thru) that comes from a kinetic weapon "finishing off" the shields and the leftover damage going to hull (modified by hull resist...)

hull damage for torpedoes this is the bleedthru + damage overage

A few hypothetical examples follow.

Suppose a fully shielded cruiser with 12000 shields eats a hard buffed tricobalt (40000 base damage). If he is at minimal shield power, with no other bonus (shield) resistance, using normal bleedthru (10%) he is left with 2000 shields and takes 4000 hull from bledthru only.

This same guy in a paralel universe (call this universe lucky) eats a tric crit for 100000. In same resistance circumstances the situation is slightly more complicated. The resultant damage to shields would be 25000. However, the 13000 overage is now traslated back into hull damge (x4) and results in an instant kill, 52000 damage.

This is what happens when someone like me, gets a crit on someone who has no buffed resists. (see signature)

However, the difficulty of landing a tricobalt means this situation is reserved for sneak surprise attacks, and cnh/kerrat play.

Let us consider quantums.

A fully buffed specced (with consolesx3) quantum torpedo damage can top 10000 (non crit).

Assuming the (noob) situation above, a player launching hyt1 quantums at a guy with 12000 shields might seem liek a bad idea. But lets look further.

The bleedthru is will be but 2000 damage. The shield damge taken would be about 5000. This isnt exactly "worthless" if u ask me. But still marginal at best.

Now back to "lucky land", a say that first quantum gets a lucky crit for 40000 (pushing it, but for example purposes) The shields are not quite completely eaten by this, even with 0 bonus resist assuming 25 shield power. Yet they are left with only 2000 capacity, the next quantum will do some overage (if it was a double crit=death) as the 2500 to shield will translate into a 2000 overage, resulting in 4000+1000+2000 =7000 hulldamage (unmitigated by resist).

So in this case, you are chasing after a cruiser with 10% hull (5000). WHAT DO YOU DO! Hes got max shields and is fleeing at 7-8k range. Well if you get a lucky crit in an hyt.. he dies. Thank bleedthrough and overage. (<<this happens. alot)


But emoejoe why are you talking nonsense about situations that u never encounter, you might ask? Becus no one is just firing torpedoes. Even me.


Lets look at real world example of a proper combined arms burst.

Lets say this same cruiser got wind of his impending doom (he heard boff beeps prior to uncloak...) and he quickly mashes some buffs up on his ship. Boom now hes got an extra 45% shield resist and 50% hull resist.

Burstmaster pops out of cloak, approachign at 150+ speed on evasives/omega/aux to damp bonus. Pops cpb3 (for 5000+ shield drain (unresistable)) unloads a beam overload 3 (for ~10k damage non crit) and slams quantums into the same shield face the bo prepped.

The 12000 shield is dropped down to 7000 instantly. The beam overload hits with ~50% resistance to the shields, hitting them down to 2000. Quantum 1 gets thru the shields with 2k overage, quantum 2 gets thru in full glory. All non crits (but hits ofc) will leave the target down about 10k hull. (throw a couple crits in, the guy is looking at <50%)

^^ this is a burst. This is what you do to ensure torpedoes strike raw hull, among other things. This is also what one player can do alone. Now if u add in a guy on your team doing the energy spam, then the backup/assist user of torpedoes will have an easy day spiking the hull.

Again, the instantaneous burst onf one single torpedo is what takes you over the top. Its what makes that next haz emitters/transfer shield tic moot. The hull % isnt that great. An escort down to 20% only has ~8000 hull. Thats ONE QUANTUM (non crit). Even an uber cruiser at 20% only has 10000 hull points remaining.

The moral of the story, keep the pressureo n the shields they will inevitably go down for a time in the battle. If u design your attack (god forbind coordinate with others) then you almost have a guarantee to penetrate one shield face of any ship (especially if your bro has snb). DURING THIS TIME: TORPEDOES WIN

So if u choose to look at the first few examples u are missing the point. The point is that a combined arms approach, utlizing torpedoes, is par none the absolute best spike or insatnataneous damage available in the game. And im not even really talkign about tricobalts.....

thanks for reading. felt i had to get that out there <S>
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-25-2011, 05:39 PM
Good post!!! I agree fully in the use of torpedo's and have used them since launch. It has always been about timing but in the early days making a shield facing disappear was so easy that you could drop a full load of HY3 Quantums and make anyones ship explode in one pass. Now it isn't as simple. To drop a shield facing and unload torps takes precise timing and execution that it seems to be a lost art. One that hopefully comes back. The use of all Dual Cannons or Dual Beam banks seems to have taken over but in the end if I had to choose between Overload and HY for my best shot at taking someone down I'll take HY any day of the week.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-25-2011, 05:57 PM
The problem is ofc if your player knows hes going to get torps or his healers sees it, he will use extend shields on you or science team to buff your shields.

Anyhow very informative post was actually wondering what the kinetic dmg was vs shields.

You say 25%damage to shields 10% bleedthrew means you loose 75% dmg if you have shields up seems to me to be an accurate account for how it works ingame.

Shield tanking is always important tho and thats a fact having shields up means you have 90% hullresists. (if you can say it that way)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-25-2011, 06:05 PM
there are clearly an inumerable number of defenses that can be cast on any target. the KEY to succesful burst lies within two tactics.

for everyone: fast target switch, burst on new target coordinated strike will result in that player being (semi) unbuffed and unrdy.

for cloakers: obvious, get a sneak move on an unready/unbuffed target (ie: wait for appropriate buffs to fade out)

blindly "bursting" a target repeatedly isnt going to get it done. surgical application is necessary, if u expect to get any thing thru shields
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-25-2011, 06:40 PM
I'll never retire Torpedoes.

The burst damage they do is just far too useful. Especially as they don't eat 50 weapon power afterwards like a beam overload will. Which saves your batteries for things like, your Engines, Shields or Aux (depending on your preference) It also frees up an Eng console for something more defensive, or something to boost your turn rate.

After a certain point the healer just won't be able to do anything to help the unfortunate victim. Defenses can be overloaded, and healing defeated through proper Battlefield Control.

And when those 150k+ trics come for you, it doesn't matter what your hull resist is at. It's going to hurt anything lighter than a Cruiser. Very badly.

Of course you could also just pump Quantums high yielded every 15 seconds and pretty much guarantee high burst damage.

Similarly, I can whack someone with a high yield 2 Plasma Torp for 87k. Potentially every 15 seconds while my tac buffs are on. BO can't match that... and not keep sustained pressure on the target at least to anything resembling equal effect.

I actually gimp my team when I go Pure Energy because my overall kills will be lower, over a given length of time. If that BO3 misses, or doesn't hit hard enough then I'm boned until my weapon power recovers. High Yield also can net you much better results at lower Boff Spots than BO, RF, CSV, or FAW.

Even an Ensign level Hy1 can smack north of 40k depending on the torp type. (Plasma is again really nice for this). Which frees up spots for things like Attack Patterns.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-25-2011, 07:21 PM
i like my transphasics
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-25-2011, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
i like my transphasics
TRANSPHASICS ARE A LIE

yes torps are an important part of the burst kit
sci and tac skills to soften shields
energy weapons to take shields down
eng skills to stay alive while it happens

typical

there are seemingly unrelated skill combos to explore as well.
this is a common point all will reach in their own time.

the true test is how you use what you have
then how you work with a team to manage your combined strike
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-25-2011, 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
i like my transphasics
Actually Transphasics presently are the worst torp by far. As their crap damage, makes them still come up short compared to a Quantum on bleedthrough.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-25-2011, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Actually Transphasics presently are the worst torp by far. As their crap damage, makes them still come up short compared to a Quantum on bleedthrough.
actually there is a marginal increase of damage on bleed thru, but your right, mostly transpahsics are crap. However lets us conisder the times when it may be worthwhile......

When encounterign an enemy with full shields with no chance to take them down with even a tricobalt, transphasics will do the most damage to hull. Imagine a transphasic critting for 20k vs a quantum critting for 30k....

The quantum will bleed 3k the transphasic will bleed 6k. If u have a combined assault from multiple tacticals using hyt transphasics at maximum buff, youd get 10 torps. If u got a good crit rate of 2 out of ten then you could conceivably one volley a cruiser thru full shields.

But the basic crap transphasic doing 2k damage and 600 bleedthru.. isnt gonna be noticeable.

But if you got a hyt3 off at say 5k per torp youd still do a significantly higher amount of damage with transphasics (assumng the shields had no chance of going down) (3k vs 1500)

Transphasics may do 2/3 quantum damage, but they do 3x bleedthru. Overall damage differntial means trnasphasics do about 2x direct to hull damage over quantums.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-25-2011, 10:00 PM
Guys guess what i just thought i let you know that Pressing A makes your ship turn to the left and pressing D makes your ship turn right


thanks for reading. felt i had to get that out there...
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