Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
01-27-2011, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
What, I can't make a mistake??

I don't use that ship and thought I recalled that only the Defiant could equip cannons, or was it dual heavy cannons?


jeesh...
It was an honest question, I don't have the Fleet Escort (love my Prometheus) and I've not looked at the recent release notes.
A little jumpy aren't we?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
01-27-2011, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
LMAO!

You know absolutely nothing about this game.

/debate

Good day.
Your combative nature not withstanding, one error on my part does not invalidate the numerous points I have made no more than the error I caught you in invalidates your points.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
01-27-2011, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
What, I can't make a mistake??

I don't use that ship and thought I recalled that only the Defiant could equip cannons, or was it dual heavy cannons?


jeesh...
Escorts use cannons. That's what they do. That is one of the main reasons to fly one, and why the Gal X is so *special* as a cruiser that can mount them.
It seems like a rather odd thing to say about an escort, without researching to make sure it is a correct statement, to claim that one can't equip them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
01-27-2011, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mav750k View Post
Escorts use cannons. That's what they do. That is one of the main reasons to fly one, and why the Gal X is so *special* as a cruiser that can mount them.
It seems like a rather odd thing to say about an escort, without researching to make sure it is a correct statement, to claim that one can't equip them.
As I said, I don't use one and in order to find out, I would have to get one, displacing a ship I already have.
The ship database only lists weapon slots, not type allowed and I relied on my memory that I read something
stating only the Defiant would be allowed a certain weapon type. If this was a healthy discussion and not a choke hold "US" vs "THEM" debate, someone would simply have corrected me and the discussion would move on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
01-27-2011, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
As I said, I don't use one and in order to find out, I would have to get one, displacing a ship I already have.
You are aware that you can simply lock on to Tribble, get a free respec and try out any ship you want?

That's what I did before deciding whether I'd go RSV or DSSV on my Sci, it's an excellent way to try stuff out without messing your "actual" chars up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
01-27-2011, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
You are aware that you can simply lock on to Tribble, get a free respec and try out any ship you want?

That's what I did before deciding whether I'd go RSV or DSSV on my Sci, it's an excellent way to try stuff out without messing your "actual" chars up.
That is a good idea...I forgot about Tribble since the copy character tool was down for so long and
I had deleted my toon before learning the copy tool wasn't going to work.

I may give that a try.....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
01-27-2011, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberion1701
SNIPPED.
11 FED CRUISERS with varying BOff slots to support a pro Engineer ability loadout followed by science, then Tactical. 4 of said cruisers currently have unique abilities (Transwarp/cloak/ phaser lance/saucer sep), 2 of which are not PvP foucused.
http://www.stowiki.org/Federation_Cruiser
9 KDF BATTLECRUISERS (include Patrol Cruisers, Carriers, and Fleet Support Vessels.) with varying BOff slots to support a pro-Engineer ability loadout followed by Science, then Tactical (except for the Kar'Fi).
All but four have cloaking as the standard KDF ability (yes its the best known KDF advantage. its factional - been that way since 1973), only 2 vessel posses a special ability ( I don not count pets as a special since you can not have a carrier without pets and it still fall under the definitionof carrier)
http://www.stowiki.org/Klingon_Battle_Cruiser

7 FED ESCORTS with varying BOff slots to support a pro Tactical loadout followed by Science then Engineering. Two of said Escorts posses a special abilty that has PvP uses.
http://www.stowiki.org/Federation_Escort
5 KDF RAPTORS (escorts and the Garumba) with varying BOff slots to support a pro Tactical loadout followed by Science then Engineering. All but one have cloaking as the standard KDF ability (yes its the best known KDF advantage. its factional - been that way since 1973), only 1 vessel posses 2 special abilities.
http://www.stowiki.org/Raptor

8 FED SCIENCE VESSELS with varying BOff slots to support a pro Science loadout followed Engineering then Tactical (2 vessels in the bracket do posses U-slots). All posses the permaskill of Target Subsystem while 3 posses a mixture of special abilites Tachyon Field and Ablative armor.
http://www.stowiki.org/Federation_Science_Vessel

There are no set KDF SCIENCE vessels though the BOP, Vov, Kar'fi and Varanus can function as to this class on a limited degree.

1 KDF SCOUT/RAIDER class vessel with a versatile loadout involving U-slots offset by lower hull, shields and less slots regardless of tier. Said vessel does have the Battle cloak as its primary special ability.

There are no SCOUT/Raider class vessels in the federation peace-keeping armada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
Once again, a pro-Klingon player has ignored every rational statement in favour of his/her own
desire to keep the advantage.
Once again the same fed players retorts based from a narrow viewpoint.
If you don't like that the KDF having cloaks - blaim Gene Roddenberry for holding Star Fleet to a higher ideal of what " makes a hero" than the current fans seem to display in the forums.
If you dislike the BoP as a scout/raider design to function as a multi-tasker with only U-slots and BC as its specials, under the handicaps it has been given to offset it advantages than you cry to the Devs.
If you find it hard to kill a vessel with a base 24,000 hull and a base 3,980 shields (which when maxed hardly acceeds 9000 ) then your issues with the BoP actually lay elsewhere.

I still find you anti-BoP/Anti-KDF perception unfounded.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
It is only a 6k hull point difference between the BoP and the Defiant R, the Fleet Escort (Hermes) & Advanced Escort (Prometheus) while the Klingon "Escort" has 3,300 hull points more than any Fed Escort.
BoP is not an escort, those 6k in hull points mean alot towards survival.

LTC Escort 15,000 Somraw 16,500
Com Heavy 20,000 Qorgh 22,000
Capt Tactical 25,000 Pach 27,500
RA Advanced 30,000 Qin 33,300
RA Fleet 30,000
VA Defiant-R 30,000 Garumba 31,500

all Raptors posses less shield than thier Fed escort counter parts. So it appears that the feds have betetr shield technolgy and the KDF bulks up their vessels physically.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberion1701
The KDF ships have things you strategize for, and the Federation ships do not.
The KDF ships are designed towards a strategy of purpose , while the federation has several designs that require a strategy to use towards a purpose.

Quote:
Can you not SEE the difference? The KDF ships CHANGE THE PLAYSTYLE of their groups. The Fed ships DON'T.
There in lies the fed problem, they posses more choices of vessels and this makes for a less chance that a PuG will ever line up just right on its own to thier favor.
Give them time to preplan and the situation definately slides into thier favor, as shown by the Premade domination by feds.

SO in summary the KDF has a purpose design in thier vessels that dictates a narrow set of stategies that work well together in pvp and the federation has several choices of vessels that can be used well with strategy in pvp.


Still seems very balanced to me at first glance and under closer inspection and that leads me to the conclusion that this was just another wasted Troll thread started to open a debate that has no definitave answer due to everyone's bias of tehir own perception.


Its time for all of us to grow up and stop wanting the world to change to suit our own agenda.

To All whom it may concern;
The "Specials" and "unique" abilities that some want for the federation exist in the Genre as a script/storyline escape mechanism that the hero acquires/discovers/ or pulls out his ass to be the hero of the story and can't be properly reflected in STO everytime a faction has a vessel released with something the federation does not have per se.
If the fanbase truelly believes the Devs should release a copy or mimic of any special abilty given unto one of the other factions, something not found fedside, everytime said abilty sees the light of day then you are all only showing your selfish nature and belittling the view of ST fans worldwide.
This not to say that the feds should not posses thier own factuional abilities, just that everytime someone gets a new toy you don;t need one as well.
If the game falls to this sort of pandering of the feds (or any one faction) then its time to shutdown the game as a means of massage one own ego and go back to simple masturbation - its cheaper than paying $15 a month to feel superior.

Its one thing to be upset and cry for content for a more enjoyable game, its sadder to cry becuase you want all the other kids toys as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
01-27-2011, 11:23 AM
I like you Roach, your reply is very constructive and on topic. Thank you for that. I'd like to send you a barrel of my finest Blood Wine, on the house!


EDIT:

Irrespective to what the DEV team has labeled the BoP as and irrespective to what it was designed for
in any series, in this game, it behaves like an Escort in PvP. My Defiant shields can only max out at 10k
so its not far off from the BoP but besides, in PvP, I find my shields tend to stay around 50% when at 10k and when I use the +35 console and get them to 11,500k, it does little to improve performance, it just raises the max lvel, a level that is not likely to be maintained in PvP.

That said, 9k for the BoP is comparable to my Escort. I have noting against Klingon players but I do feel the BoP has advantages that far outweigh its short comings. and the current "Alpha Strike" is an "I WIN" button whoch isn't supposed to exist in this game, or the Galaxy X would have a functional Spinal Lance Phaser.
The BoP is the only Klingon ship I take issue with.

EDIT II:

Well, you had to add that last little bit in there at the end negating my opening comments! Oh well...I'd still share a Blood Wine with you!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
01-27-2011, 11:32 AM
Actually, from what I read in Roach's post, he pretty much backs up what I said.

He won't admit it, but I'd like to thank him for the backup, anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
01-27-2011, 11:38 AM
I love all the posts about hull strength... Cause we all know that torpedoes don't chew through hulls so fast it isn't funny....

And the OMG tac retrofit is so much better than a raptor etc etc.... Truth is nobody uses raptor because it "sucks"... And a BOP can do a Defiants job 8 times better than a defiant can. I don't want a Klink nerf. That would be stupid. I want something that makes the Klinks wonder how the feds will be playing this round.

And please don't post about dedicated science ships. Most science captains would give parts of their anatomy to have dual heavy cannons and a CMDR Sci Boff.
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