Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-26-2011, 06:19 PM
I have 3 VA fed characters 1 of each type. Im lvling my 1st klingon and i can already say NO ADVANTAGE. I went into pvp arena last night and killed 3 feds solo in my bop. How you ask? Im very experianced in my spec, weapon loadouts, and boffs. These guys were complete newbies. There is no reason why 1 on 1 with a saber i should own it 1 sided aside from experiance.

This game is incredibly balanced for an MMO. Sci/eng/tac escort/cruiser/sci no matter the combo i havent found 1 that cant somehow beat all the others. Win some lose some, anyone who cant understand that needs to not pvp.

Experiance and skill will trump everything else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-26-2011, 06:23 PM
The real meaning behind the phrase "Klingons have more experience because they have to play PvP to level" is that they will PvP at every level.
They don't wait until level cap to PvP.
If you play a lot of PvP from Lt on you will find that it is not all about Klingons. The lower level FEDs can be very good and then they only get better.
I have seen the most extreme differences at skill at the RA/BG levels and up. At that level and higher many times I have had one match were the Klingons don't even group and win 15-0. Then in the very next one a grouped PUG gets whipped by a FED premade 15-0.
At lower levels the matches were much closer in score, you would win or lose by 4 or 5 kills. You did not see the extreme differences in scores.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-26-2011, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Do Klingons characters have an intrinsic gameplay advantage in PvP?
No.

Do Klngon players have an advantage due to PvP being their means of primary leveling?
yes.
I came in here to say exactly that. . .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-26-2011, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok42 View Post
I came in here to say exactly that. . .
Same question to you as Darren then.

I listed 6 things that Klingons have that are unique to them. Gameplay advantages.

Can you name 6 unique advantages that the feds have to offset and keep it balanced?

Otherwise, the 1st part of what you agreed with is false.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-26-2011, 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberion1701
I think the main issue is that Klingons have a lot more tools in their toolbox.
Uhh, no...

1. Orion Ship < Star Cruiser (extra sci console)

2. Gorn Ship < Deep Space Sci Vessel (extra engineering console) - Considered the worst sci ship on the fed side, no one even uses it (plus the intrepid is easily the best the ship in the game)

3. Goomba < Fleet Escort (loss of engineering console)

4. Raptor < Defiant and Fleet Escort (cant turn as well as defiant, tactical ensign not as good as engineering). Something is just wrong with this ship. I have no idea what it is, but Im not the only one. I specced into it last week, but something is just off with it. It may be due to Federation Sci spam affecting it so much worse in FvK. I much prefer my fleet escort fed (probably my fav ship in the game to be honest).

5. Vorcha < Assault Cruiser (less health, turning an extra 6 degrees does nothing, same with cannons on cruisers, period).

6. Kar'fi < Excelsior - There are some differences in this one, but overall the excel can match the Kar'fi's damage, is far more survivable (slightly worse shields for far better hull and engineering skills). Tric Pets are nice, but are nullified with all the Fed sci spam. It's not a clear victory, but I bet you most would prefer the Excel over the Karfi.

7. Vo'Quv is already weak at the moment for a number of reasons (can't turn, poor engy slots, little damage, Pets now getting annihilated by counters, can really only play engineer [only the two worst team buffing captain abilities], are only good with more than one carrier, meaning loss of potential sci's and tact's on a five man team setup).

Now its getting nuked with nerfs. It will be useless.

8. Neghvar is a solid ship, though the only difference from the Assault Cruiser is the extra engy ensign (which may soon be dominated by Subsystem Targeting I being available to everyone). But it is a good ship.

9. B'Rel is the worst ship in the game.

10. Heghta is a good ship. No doubt. However, it is the squishiest ship in the game by far, and requires a very good player in order to fly properly in premades (can count with my fingers the number of good Heghta players in the game).

EDIT:

As for the rest of the Toolbox, feds still have:

-Inrepid
-Recon Sci
-Nebula
-Sci Escort

And the junk:

-Gal, Gal X

So no, they are not overpowered. Cloak (not battle cloak) is all but useless after the initial encounter, and considering its pretty much a requirement to use non cloakable ships to beat federation teams, theres almost no bonus to it on the cruisers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by JToney3449 View Post
I have 3 VA fed characters 1 of each type. Im lvling my 1st klingon and i can already say NO ADVANTAGE. I went into pvp arena last night and killed 3 feds solo in my bop. How you ask? Im very experianced in my spec, weapon loadouts, and boffs. These guys were complete newbies. There is no reason why 1 on 1 with a saber i should own it 1 sided aside from experiance.

This game is incredibly balanced for an MMO. Sci/eng/tac escort/cruiser/sci no matter the combo i havent found 1 that cant somehow beat all the others. Win some lose some, anyone who cant understand that needs to not pvp.

Experiance and skill will trump everything else.
Saying you smoked 3 players in your bop does not reinforce your argument that the KDF has no advantages. But I agree that experience (and innate talent, let's not discount that) is a huge factor. It is a logical certainty that 90% of players will not be as good at pvp as the top 10%. If experience rules as you say, and those who can't "understand that" (and should therefore lose most of the time) shouldn't pvp, then why put any dev time into pvp at all? Even putting dev time into the KDF when 12% of players play there is more cost effective for the devs than the tiny percentage at the top of pvp. You guys are less than 1% of the playerbase. Maybe one tenth of one percent. Way to go trying to limit an already niche playstyle. People will not be cannon fodder and be insulted for long, and they haven't. That's why there are long waits for queues and little dev time spent on you. And maybe that's the way it should be. There are lots of games that already have skill ratings, ladders, and lots of variety in maps and objectives pvp'ers could be playing. Why add those things to STO for you and your few dozen compatriots at the top? Why should people like me spend any time at all trying to improve pvp so more people will do it? Have fun with your level of expertise, and have fun insuring that no one else even tries to get to your level.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-26-2011, 07:02 PM
Beagles: Uh... is that supposed to be a "less than" sign, because you're ignoring the unique ability those KDF ships have that the Fed ships DO NOT.

One console is not better than actual unique powers that players must plan to counteract.

As for the Kar'fi vs Excelsior....... that is comparing an apple to a little rubber ducky. If you can't guess how a pet-ship has an advantage over a slightly stronger Sovereign, we can't even begin having this argument.


Someone out there HAS to be able to list some unique things that the Feds get that the KDF doesn't. I listed 6 KDF-only gameplay advantages for PVP.

Something more than an extra console, please.

And your teams are terrible if you can't find a use for cloak after the initial battle. You know you can move away and recloak right? And then pound them with another unified alpha-strike. Kill a few and move off before they regroup. If they happen to have a Nebula its harder, but still doable.

And exactly which noncloaking ship is required to beat feds? Are you saying those carriers that suck are required, or those orion and gorn ships that are worse than DSSVs and Star Cruisers? Which ship you said was bad is "required" to beat Feds?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-26-2011, 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberion1701
Beagles: Uh... is that supposed to be a "less than" sign, because you're ignoring the unique ability those KDF ships have that the Fed ships DO NOT.

One console is not better than actual unique powers that players must plan to counteract.

As for the Kar'fi vs Excelsior....... that is comparing an apple to a little rubber ducky. If you can't guess how a pet-ship has an advantage over a slightly stronger Sovereign, we can't even begin having this argument.


Someone out there HAS to be able to list some unique things that the Feds get that the KDF doesn't. I listed 6 KDF-only gameplay advantages for PVP.

Something more than an extra console, please.
Uhh, no.

The Gorn healing station ability is useless. Seriously, they are hazard emitters that give you 28 health a tick. Good hazards can you 80x more at 2000 a tick.

The Orion interceptors get killed by FAW (essential) because they have absolutely no health.

The Goomba siege mode turns it into a cruiser that cant turn with no health. Pointless.

As for the Karfi, the pets actually do no damage at all. They have a single anti proton turret. Theyre only good for tricobalt mine laying. It is hardly comparing Apples to Oranges when they are both essentially tactical cruisers (however, i even said its not a clear victory because they are different).


The point is the fed versions of the "clones" are better. I would much rather have +18 resistance to all damage than a crappy healing station. If you are not going to use anything but clone ships, you might as well play feds.

So what do feds get that klings dont? Far better sci (currently the most deadly thing in the game at top PVP, go read the pvp forums even), stronger ships overall (as proven above), far more options and team setup possibilities.

Klingons get Birds, which are great but difficult to play. The Voquv was moving in the right direction and just took two steps back.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-26-2011, 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberion1701
Beagles: Uh... is that supposed to be a "less than" sign, because you're ignoring the unique ability those KDF ships have that the Fed ships DO NOT.

One console is not better than actual unique powers that players must plan to counteract.

As for the Kar'fi vs Excelsior....... that is comparing an apple to a little rubber ducky. If you can't guess how a pet-ship has an advantage over a slightly stronger Sovereign, we can't even begin having this argument.


Someone out there HAS to be able to list some unique things that the Feds get that the KDF doesn't. I listed 6 KDF-only gameplay advantages for PVP. You mean besides extra Hull in almost every ship class?

Something more than an extra console, please.

And your teams are terrible if you can't find a use for cloak after the initial battle. You know you can move away and recloak right? And then pound them with another unified alpha-strike. Kill a few and move off before they regroup. If they happen to have a Nebula its harder, but still doable.

And exactly which noncloaking ship is required to beat feds? Are you saying those carriers that suck are required, or those orion and gorn ships that are worse than DSSVs and Star Cruisers? Which ship you said was bad is "required" to beat Feds?
In red.....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-26-2011, 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberion1701
And your teams are terrible if you can't find a use for cloak after the initial battle. You know you can move away and recloak right? And then pound them with another unified alpha-strike. Kill a few and move off before they regroup. If they happen to have a Nebula its harder, but still doable.

And exactly which noncloaking ship is required to beat feds? Are you saying those carriers that suck are required, or those orion and gorn ships that are worse than DSSVs and Star Cruisers? Which ship you said was bad is "required" to beat Feds?

What PVP fleet are you in again? Are you in a league? Do you even have a 5 man setup?

Because if you are, you would know you cant "move away" and recloak in a cruiser. Once youre in the battle as a cruiser, youre in the battle. You would know that a unified alpha strike can be countered by the absurd cross healing abilities. You would know if you kill a few off you do not run, you go for the sweep.

Cloaking ships: Bird, Raptor, Negh, Vorcha. There is no sci capable ship in there. You cannot win without high level sci powers (bird can do a little offensively, but not as well and in no way can be a healer). This is simply the way the game is played atm. Healing > Damage.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:09 PM.