Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-01-2011, 04:12 AM
Yeah, those of us who are reasonable people all realize that the intention was always there to make an MMO with two full sides, but when CBS and/or Atari laid down the law about the launch date Cryptic had no choice but to cut something.

And yes, it is good that an MMO can grow after launch. However a lot of customers have a problem with paying a subscription for an unfinished game. We don't mind paying to play a game, but we're not interested in paying to play a buggy, broken, boring game that doesn't have enough content to keep us entertained. That's was STO when it launched. The whole game, not just Klingon side.

It just makes me mad that people are trying to rewrite history now. It shouldn't, because that's what always happens, but it does anyway. The Dev Defense League with their snide little, "Oh, you were never told that Klingon side was gonna have PvE, you just assuuuuuumed. You know what happens when you assuuuuume, don't you?"

I really have a lot of respect for Mr. Stahl. I especially like the fact that he speaks the truth. Something that seems to be in short supply these days.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-01-2011, 05:04 AM
I agree about not wanting to pay for an unfinished game but by it's nature that is what an MMO is since it is never supposed to be finished. MMOs to often get put under the same scope as regular games and this is not fair to MMOs, this is a very different creature.

As for the content, a lot of problems there lie with the consumers. They come into an MMO with the idea of winning. They think if they race to the end they will win and be uber somehow. This just shows an ignorance of the way an MMO works. STO had a fair content amount at start, sure it could have had more but there was enough that for a lot of us we did not finish advancement for a few months.

Now I understand that some people did it much quicker but these same people race through content in every game. That is NOT the way an MMO is designed and they really should move to a different type of game to fit their play style.

Now the buggy part you will get argument from me on that, would love to buy any game that came out bug free, good luck finding one. It is a sad reality we have in gaming today.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-01-2011, 07:17 AM
Nothing against you Ed, but I'm really starting to hate that stupid marketing tagline, "An MMO is never finished..."

MMOs are about something that's fun for a long period of time. That's why we're willing to pay for them. Because the world is so large that it'll be months before we've seen it all. There's always somewhere to go and always something to do. We become attached to our character(s) and we enjoy the long road of growth and the increase in skill and power of our character(s) in this large shared world.

The problem was that at launch STO had none of that. The world didn't feel large, it didn't feel like we were sharing it with others. The leveling process was so short, and the missions so shallow, that we didn't become attached to our characters. And there wasn't always something to do.

And then, on top of all of that, the game was so buggy that people often couldn't play what little content there was for more than a few minutes at a time.

So no, it had nothing to do with being finished or unfinished or winning or racing to the end, it was because at launch the game sucked.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-01-2011, 08:28 AM
STO is definitely improving, and that is obviously a good thing and I'm happy about it. Unfortunately, you never get a second chance to make a first impression, and STO's first impression turned alot of people off.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-01-2011, 09:33 AM
Peregrine_Falcon,

I appreciate your position and your right to have it but I have to disagree. With the excpetion of the silly ATI card bug that is easily worked around the game has been stable for me from day one. Oh I have hit a mission glitch or two but nothing that stopped me from enjoying the game.

I will agree that the traditional MMO model was not in place and it required more effort to feel like other where a part of it with you but I did find that with a good fleet and people to enjoy missions with. Additionally for me I found the solocentric nature of the game helpful as my play times would sometimes limit my availability, thus it was easier to enjoy the game without being forced to wait until others where on.

As I said in my original review and have commented on over the last year STO did not launch as it should have and there is no denying that. Even Stahl admits to this. However I personally think saying it sucked is to harsh a term. I said then and I will say it here, at launch STO was a fair to good game. On a scale of 1-10 I would say something like a 6.5, playable, enjoyable but not something staggering of game changing.

Today I would up that score to 8.8 with a lot of what we see planned being able to push it to a 9 soon.

Yesterday cannot be undone, first impressions cannot be remade. However what we have today is not what we started with, it is better, stronger and the future looks brighter than ever and I think we all agree on that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-01-2011, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
Nothing against you Ed, but I'm really starting to hate that stupid marketing tagline, "An MMO is never finished..."

MMOs are about something that's fun for a long period of time. That's why we're willing to pay for them. Because the world is so large that it'll be months before we've seen it all. There's always somewhere to go and always something to do. We become attached to our character(s) and we enjoy the long road of growth and the increase in skill and power of our character(s) in this large shared world.

The problem was that at launch STO had none of that. The world didn't feel large, it didn't feel like we were sharing it with others. The leveling process was so short, and the missions so shallow, that we didn't become attached to our characters. And there wasn't always something to do.

And then, on top of all of that, the game was so buggy that people often couldn't play what little content there was for more than a few minutes at a time.

So no, it had nothing to do with being finished or unfinished or winning or racing to the end, it was because at launch the game sucked.


This^^

As stated , an mmo is supposed to keep the player engaged for a very long period of time. STO fails misreably at this important aspect.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-01-2011, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Computer.Ed
Peregrine_Falcon,

I appreciate your position and your right to have it but I have to disagree. With the excpetion of the silly ATI card bug that is easily worked around the game has been stable for me from day one. Oh I have hit a mission glitch or two but nothing that stopped me from enjoying the game.

I will agree that the traditional MMO model was not in place and it required more effort to feel like other where a part of it with you but I did find that with a good fleet and people to enjoy missions with. Additionally for me I found the solocentric nature of the game helpful as my play times would sometimes limit my availability, thus it was easier to enjoy the game without being forced to wait until others where on.

As I said in my original review and have commented on over the last year STO did not launch as it should have and there is no denying that. Even Stahl admits to this. However I personally think saying it sucked is to harsh a term. I said then and I will say it here, at launch STO was a fair to good game. On a scale of 1-10 I would say something like a 6.5, playable, enjoyable but not something staggering of game changing.

Today I would up that score to 8.8 with a lot of what we see planned being able to push it to a 9 soon.

Yesterday cannot be undone, first impressions cannot be remade. However what we have today is not what we started with, it is better, stronger and the future looks brighter than ever and I think we all agree on that.
a 9? there is not enough space in a single post for me to write all the lol's this evaluation rightly deserves.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-01-2011, 10:48 AM
Well ya got to give it a chance! It is improving by leaps and bounds. EVE has had over 8 years to get where it is, and they STILL don't have ground combat!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-01-2011, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore_Rook View Post
Well ya got to give it a chance! It is improving by leaps and bounds. Eve has had over 7 years to get where it is, and they STILL don't have ground combat!
As an old EVE player, let me just clarify that EVE never made any promises of ground combat while I was there. It's built as a space game through and through. STO is a different animal and you can't compare the two that easily.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-01-2011, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Hunter 9
As an old EVE player, let me just clarify that EVE never made any promises of ground combat while I was there. It's built as a space game through and through. STO is a different animal and you can't compare the two that easily.
Oh I am not comparing them (other than it is the only other major space MMO other than SWG) but is one of the oldest, and it has constantly improved over the years too. STO is ONE year old. Imagine what STO will be like in 8 years! Is it perfect? Hardly, but at least it is not stagnating and is evolving everyday.


And EVE HAS been working on a ground based model since it came out!
Incarna
Previously known as 'Ambulation' and 'Walking In Stations', Incarna will revolve around allowing players to leave their pods and interact with other pilots 'face to face'. This feature has been in development for the majority of the life of Eve, but the current development road map outlined to players suggests that the majority of CCP's development efforts are going into this over the next 18 months. Torfi Frans ”lafsson, Eve's creative director has confirmed that Incarna is intended for release in the summer of 2011.[45]
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