Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 New ESD exterior scale
02-02-2011, 02:28 PM
A few things first. One is, IMO a fantastic job has been done on ESD. Even after seeing it on tribble, it infact got even better once it got on holodeck. Also the event is a fantastic job! The fed and kdf both. I was plesantly surprised by all the holobanners hanging about especially.

Second, the exterior came out better than i expected. What i expected was an acceptable model with static doors and no docking sequence. What we got was quite an accurate and detailed model, with spacedock doors and a pseudo docking sequence. Excellent!


Now for the bad. I actually wanted to save this till after the event week, but its not a bad idea to get a discussion going.

IMO, the new ESD is too small. I noticed this in tribble where a bug caused the new ESD to appear and overlap with the old one, and it was far smaller. I hoped that it would be scaled up, but it wasnt.

One thing thats making it it look small is the shuttles flying about. Then again the shuttles are too big, and they make starships look small too, though to a lesser extent

Another is the level of player traffic around ESD, which is eclipsing ESD. Add that to the relative scale of the station to the starships, and it almost looks as if ships are waiting to be served, because not even half of those ships can fit in the docking interior. The old one didnt quite give this impression, because the station was literally bigger than its cloud of traffic.

Third...parking my nomad variant (star cruiser) in front of a spacedock door showed that it would barely clear the sides of the opening. Remembering that the galaxy is larger, i pulled out my old envoy class and found it doesnt quite fit through the doors. Changed the model to galaxy, it looks like it would scrape the sides of the door too.

Last. Since we can see the interior of the dock with the galaxy, excelsior and small craft inside the interior...the exterior doesnt seem to suggest such a cavernous space, although granted when you're in space you perspective changes.

Its not possible to find the canon scale for ESD since the movie version contradicts the TNG version, and the galaxy would not properly fit in the movie version anyway. But i still think something larger is in order.

Thoughts?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-02-2011, 02:33 PM
Actually my main problem with the scale in Sol now is it feels like the moon is way too close to Earth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-02-2011, 02:34 PM
I have to say I agree to an extent. Shuttles are too big. There is no way that any of the shuttles could fit through the shuttle bay doors on any of the ships.
With regard to ESD, It is a little on the small side. Though I think it's a combination of size and of the distraction provided by a vast amount of traffic that's currently buzzing around like a swarm of glowing warp capable insects.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-02-2011, 02:35 PM
has the ext, really been changed. i thought it was just the int that was being changed. abit confused
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-02-2011, 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelphoenix12 View Post
has the ext, really been changed. i thought it was just the int that was being changed. abit confused
Both have been changed. Beam out if you're online and take a look. I really must emphasize, despite my beef with the scale, its really fantastic, especially the docking sequence.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-02-2011, 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRevan View Post
Both have been changed. Beam out if you're online and take a look. I really must emphasize, despite my beef with the scale, its really fantastic, especially the docking sequence.
cool ty ill take a look as soon as i dl and the servers up
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-02-2011, 02:43 PM
Definitely agree about the shuttles being too large, however the ESD feel might go away after a little while once people calm down about it and there isn't everyone around here. In my opinion this could be a good thing, if they're toning back the scale of star bases and the like to a reasonable level that means that we might be getting a feeling that our ships are larger. That was one thing that always bugged me a little is when I was flying my galaxy class ship up to a bunch of orbital satellites and found them to be 2-3 kilometers tall.

It's not a huge annoyance and I can see how there would be some civilian stuff that's quite large even when battleships aren't but it would be nice to get the feeling of "oh wow, I'm HUGE" a bit more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-02-2011, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRevan View Post
Its not possible to find the canon scale for ESD since the movie version contradicts the TNG version, and the galaxy would not properly fit in the movie version anyway. But i still think something larger is in order.

Thoughts?
Actually, ESD was never seen in TNG. The stations you saw in TNG were other stations. Reference this excerpt from Memory Alpha:
Quote:
Footage of Earth Spacedock was re-used more than once in Star Trek: The Next Generation, with the USS Enterprise-D superimposed over the motion picture Enterprise:
TNG: "11001001" as Starbase 74
TNG: "Remember Me" as Starbase 133
TNG: "Ensign Ro" as Lya Station Alpha
TNG: "Phantasms" as Starbase 84
The enclosure around Drafting Room 5 at Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards, as seen in "Booby Trap", was also quite similar to the interior of this type of spacedock.
While it's entirely possible that ESD would be bigger now, canonically, the most recent image we have of the actual ESD are ones from Star Trek: III, IV, and VI:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:En...gSpacedock.jpg - Enterprise leaves ESD
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:US..._spacedock.jpg - Enterprise-A inside Spacedock.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:US..._Spacedock.jpg - Excelsior inside Spacedock
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Ea...trol_booth.jpg - Docking control
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Spacedoors.jpg - spacedock doors
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:US..._Spacedock.jpg - interior docking bay


The only other reference to ESD on-screen was in Voy: "Non Sequitur", which re-used this door from Dyson Sphere.


But, like I said, I do agree that ESD should be bigger. But technically speaking, it wouldn't be canon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-02-2011, 02:50 PM
Excellent Job on Starbase 1. The only problem I saw was a lack of name and registry on the Galaxy saucer section(ventral facing).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-02-2011, 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Actually, ESD was never seen in TNG. The stations you saw in TNG were other stations. Reference this excerpt from Memory Alpha:

While it's entirely possible that ESD would be bigger now, canonically, the most recent image we have of the actual ESD are ones from Star Trek: III, IV, and VI:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:En...gSpacedock.jpg - Star Trek III, Enterprise leaves ESD


The only other reference to ESD on-screen was in Voy: "Non Sequitur", which re-used this door from Dyson Sphere.


But, like I said, I do agree that ESD should be bigger. But technically speaking, it wouldn't be canon.
Yes you're right. I wasnt concise there about my thoughts. Basically, i personally believe the ones that appear in TNG to be the same class of starbase as ESD. I dont see why starfleet would make the exact same station design, only miniaturized, elsewhere. There's alot of problems with that structurally and with regard to dock space. Although it isnt clarified canonically.

Just before the servers went down i took out my tier 2 constitution. Assuming the ship is scaled correctly, its still not quite right as compared to the movies, although not as bad.

If there's any station that should dwarf our starships, it should be this. Its ESD after all.

Ok...maybe not dwarf. But still.
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