Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-03-2011, 08:53 AM
Try 'em out on Tribble...own them for yourself when they go hot on Holodeck!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-03-2011, 08:57 AM
(DISCLAIMER) Just don't beat up the authors in the ratings for the horrendous BO pathing and the stationary mobs. Those are Foundry problems, not design flaws by authors. (/DISCLAIMER)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-03-2011, 08:58 AM
The four Foundry missions that have been featured on the main STO page -- are they available on Holodeck? And, if so, how do you GET to them?

Or are they all only available on Tribble?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-03-2011, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boglejam View Post
(DISCLAIMER) Just don't beat up the authors in the ratings for the horrendous BO pathing and the stationary mobs. Those are Foundry problems, not design flaws by authors. (/DISCLAIMER)
As a Foundry author with a 4 star mission I disagree with you. The tool is the tool, flaws bugs and all; and if you DON'T take that into accoiunt when desiging and implementing your mission, then you deserve whatever rayings you receive as a result.

In the end, a person playing your mission just wants to have a good, enjoyable experience. If (in the playtesting of your mission as you create it; you find things that PREVENT complteion, or are annoying and frustrating, it's up to you (as the author/designer) to come up with a workaround that gets rid of these issues. There's ZERO guarentee the Foundry will EVER be bug free; and it's also true that when Foundry bugs are resolved, you'll often need to wideaw and republish your mission for those fixes to take effect in your mission.

And I speak from experience as my mission worked fine for 11 out of 13 that played it to date; and those 2 (appropriately) gave it a low rating because teh issue affected their enjoyment (and it is something I knew could happen IF they did a certain thing, but I figured at the time, the majority would not; and will 11 out of 13 having no issues was mostly correct. HOWEVER, I bothered me enough that I developed a bertter way to handle the case I was talking about; and as a result, improved my mission so that it won't 'bug out'; period. And if those 2 players replayed the mission teh exact same way they did before they'd now be able to complete ity and experience eveything in it as intended.

(/shameless plug: and if anyone wants to try it, it's called A Relic's Return (link) on Tribble /shameless plug.)

But again, my point is that ANY author should know the limits and bugs of the tool he/she is using and design their mission and encounters taking all taht into account; but if what they do ends up not working for the players playing the mission, they deserve what ratings they get (good or bad.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-03-2011, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
As a Foundry author with a 4 star mission I disagree with you. The tool is the tool, flaws bugs and all; and if you DON'T take that into accoiunt when desiging and implementing your mission, then you deserve whatever rayings you receive as a result.

In the end, a person playing your mission just wants to have a good, enjoyable experience. If (in the playtesting of your mission as you create it; you find things that PREVENT complteion, or are annoying and frustrating, it's up to you (as the author/designer) to come up with a workaround that gets rid of these issues. There's ZERO guarentee the Foundry will EVER be bug free; and it's also true that when Foundry bugs are resolved, you'll often need to wideaw and republish your mission for those fixes to take effect in your mission.

And I speak from experience as my mission worked fine for 11 out of 13 that played it to date; and those 2 (appropriately) gave it a low rating because teh issue affected their enjoyment (and it is something I knew could happen IF they did a certain thing, but I figured at the time, the majority would not; and will 11 out of 13 having no issues was mostly correct. HOWEVER, I bothered me enough that I developed a bertter way to handle the case I was talking about; and as a result, improved my mission so that it won't 'bug out'; period. And if those 2 players replayed the mission teh exact same way they did before they'd now be able to complete ity and experience eveything in it as intended.

(/shameless plug: and if anyone wants to try it, it's called A Relic's Return (link) on Tribble /shameless plug.)

But again, my point is that ANY author should know the limits and bugs of the tool he/she is using and design their mission and encounters taking all taht into account; but if what they do ends up not working for the players playing the mission, they deserve what ratings they get (good or bad.)
Disagree with me all you want - and I do agree that if an author places doors where none are needed and that causes people to get stuck, that is their fault.

But Unholy Alliances is set in Drozana. My BO's kept getting hung up on the hallway struts, or wouldn't go thru the narrow doors. The pathing issues are not the authors fault. The author has to set the mission SOMEWHERE. He shouldn't be down-rated because the Foundry doesn't have decent BO pathing.

Make sense?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-03-2011, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boglejam View Post
But Unholy Alliances is set in Drozana. My BO's kept getting hung up on the hallway struts, or wouldn't go thru the narrow doors. The pathing issues are not the authors fault. The author has to set the mission SOMEWHERE. He shouldn't be down-rated because the Foundry doesn't have decent BO pathing.
Not to mention old missions that worked perfectly well until Cryptic did *something* to the pathing system (and I can only speculate as to what they're trying to do...) and suddenly those missions are buggy as well. I'm not condemning player ratings or authors here, but I am puzzled as to why Cryptic launched the Foundry mission-playing code on Holodeck when they knew that ground combat and BO-pathing would be buggy.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-03-2011, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
Not to mention old missions that worked perfectly well until Cryptic did *something* to the pathing system (and I can only speculate as to what they're trying to do...) and suddenly those missions are buggy as well. I'm not condemning player ratings or authors here, but I am puzzled as to why Cryptic launched the Foundry mission-playing code on Holodeck when they knew that ground combat and BO-pathing would be buggy.
If that's what's occuring on the missions they transfered as a prieview; then ouch (although they did say it's one of the reasons there probably never will be a "Transfer Mission from Tribble to Holodeck" app; as I read they had to manually tweak the ones they copied over too; so again, it's probably something they didn't expect.

That said, the fact they want to move the Foundry open beta to Holodeck aaround February 25th is concening IF the groud pathing issues described above remain when it goes to Holodeck. It WAS stated the Foundry beta wouldn't be moved to Holodeck "until we (the Devs) feel it's ready..."; and sorry to say, but if the NPC pathing issues described above remain in the beta build that goes to the Holodeck server; I don't see how it could be considered 'ready' by anyone, as pathing IS a major issue (as the first version of the Deferi Emancipation daily on Tribble showed a few weeks ago. If the Foundry CAN'T handle proper pathing of player Boffs on the ground; thet's an issue that should be resolved BEFORE the beta gets on to Holodeck (imo).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-03-2011, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
If that's what's occuring on the missions they transfered as a prieview; then ouch (although they did say it's one of the reasons there probably never will be a "Transfer Mission from Tribble to Holodeck" app; as I read they had to manually tweak the ones they copied over too; so again, it's probably something they didn't expect.

That said, the fact they want to move the Foundry open beta to Holodeck aaround February 25th is concening IF the groud pathing issues described above remain when it goes to Holodeck. It WAS stated the Foundry beta wouldn't be moved to Holodeck "until we (the Devs) feel it's ready..."; and sorry to say, but if the NPC pathing issues described above remain in the beta build that goes to the Holodeck server; I don't see how it could be considered 'ready' by anyone, as pathing IS a major issue (as the first version of the Deferi Emancipation daily on Tribble showed a few weeks ago. If the Foundry CAN'T handle proper pathing of player Boffs on the ground; thet's an issue that should be resolved BEFORE the beta gets on to Holodeck (imo).
Actually, I think the situation as it currently stands is a bad idea. Right now, there are 4 really really good UGC missions available on holodeck. Those of us who have made UGC and played it on Tribble know the pathing is borked and can play thru it and recognize what the intent was.

The Holodeck crowd isn't going to be as forgiving.

I just hope that people don't get the wrong impression about the quality of the missions based on the horrible pathing problems and stationary mob issues. That was why I threw the disclaimer out there earlier. I'd hate to see the authors of those four really great missions flamed up for problems that aren't their fault by an uninformed Holodeck audience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-03-2011, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
Not to mention old missions that worked perfectly well until Cryptic did *something* to the pathing system (and I can only speculate as to what they're trying to do...) and suddenly those missions are buggy as well. I'm not condemning player ratings or authors here, but I am puzzled as to why Cryptic launched the Foundry mission-playing code on Holodeck when they knew that ground combat and BO-pathing would be buggy.
LOP - this is one of the reasons we are copying foundry missions directly to Holodeck instead of just turning on everything. There is an entirely new system of "beaconizing" (remember beacon guy?) for Foundry missions so that they can get pathing instruction quickly.

Normally when we create a map internally, we check that map into the branch without beacons and then overnight a process runs that plays the map and adds beacon/pathing data so that AI knows what to do.

Taking that overnight process and turning it into something that can run on the fly as thousands of players create and publish their maps and getting the process time down to a small enough window that your mission isn't stuck in publish queue forever is a huge task.

So if you are experiencing these pathing problems, we apologize, but we have a dedicated team working on it to ensure the pathing works properly when the final Foundry hits Holodeck.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-03-2011, 10:35 AM
the pathing issues of the foundry have been here since the beginning and nothing to do with the devs transferring over. in fact i have found the transfers to be slightly better that what was on tribble (although its probably more because i know about it and lead my bridge officers around the maps more easily.)

one of mu missions has an interior, and because of the pathing issues its a problem and people are lowering my score because of it. whilst its very possible to get your bridge crew around you have to be a bit more careful. unfortunately the average person in game is usually unaware of this, they play the mission and then feel that its badly designed and hence lower the score which i can understand.
they pay money to play a game, if a mission is recommended by the devs they expect a certain quality.

the simply solution is to not use interiors, but some stories really need an interior to work. it leads to a problem of do you a) tell the story you want and hope people will understand there is a bug or b) leave out interiors and therefore hampering the story.

I personally have gone for the tell the story you want to and hope it gets fixed soon and that people once they know of the problem understand it and rate missions with that in mind.

i just hope they devs fix it as soon as possible as this is a major issue.
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