Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-03-2011, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Keep in mind that the Novel written on STO "Needs of the Many" sheds alot of light on Gorn infrastructure and how they have speciliazed Gorn for different jobs/tasks. The baseball team they fielded was very interesting, not the slow Gorn of Kirks era.
I know, and their uniform were also quite cool.

What I'm not quite sure of is this:

The quick Gorn "Talons" from the novel were tech caste, which would probably reflect what principles the Varansus is based on.
The tough dude from "Arena" was a warrior, who appear to be rather slow.

Problem is that while the tech caste would probably have great influence on how a support ship would be designed what about some kind of destroyer design, would it not make sense that such a vessel would be created based on how the warriors think a ship should be designed?

And of course the usual question:

Based on what's said in the novel it seems that since members of the same caste have similar physical characteristics, would that not make most if not all warriors rather slow?
Which I think would be rather counterproductive, especially when you think about how a destroyer operates.
It's pretty much the antithesis to the Gorn warriors who are tough but not very quick.

Oh and I just noticed your PMs with the translations of you posts.
I guess they're nt really translations but rather the untranslated messages, but keeping in the spirit of things I'll call them translations.
Thank you, I must say sendng it all through a translator is really troublesome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-03-2011, 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Problem is that while the tech caste would probably have great influence on how a support ship would be designed what about some kind of destroyer design, would it not make sense that such a vessel would be created based on how the warriors think a ship should be designed?
I think it just works like in modern day real life. The warriors (military) say what they want, and the technicians (designers) then see what they can do about it.

Depending on how the castes interact with each other and how much influence and social status they have there might be a liaison between the two or not. If the warrior caste is higher in the hierarchy, a design project could be nominally headed by a ranking officer who then inspects the final result and either is pleased or tells them to build something better (maybe in a not so nice way). If the technician caste is higher in the hierarchy, it could also be that the designers simply build what they think is best and give it to the warriors to use it to the best of their abilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Based on what's said in the novel it seems that since members of the same caste have similar physical characteristics, would that not make most if not all warriors rather slow?
Which I think would be rather counterproductive, especially when you think about how a destroyer operates. It's pretty much the antithesis to the Gorn warriors who are tough but not very quick.
Is that slowness referring to their bodies or their minds and reflexes? A ship crew doesn't need to move quick as long as they are able to think quick.

Or they actually rather do it like the Tau from 40k and have one caste for ground troops (slow/big/strong Gorn) and another as pilots (fast/nimble/weak Gorn).

In all honesty, I don't think it was smart of that novel's author to strengthen the idea that Gorn are slow (a characteristic based solely on costume budget limitations during TOS, then later explained as environmental conditions of that world having caused that particular Gorn's metabolism to slow down) after ENT has shown us a quick one thanks to CGI.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-03-2011, 07:21 PM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
I
The quick Gorn "Talons" from the novel were tech caste, which would probably reflect what principles the Varansus is based on.
If the Var is considered a Science vessel, then I can see that.


Quote:
Problem is that while the tech caste would probably have great influence on how a support ship would be designed what about some kind of destroyer design, would it not make sense that such a vessel would be created based on how the warriors think a ship should be designed?
There most likely is a speciliazed worker caste that actually builds the different vessels under guidance from an Engineer class that we may not have seen yet. This is my guess.

And of course the usual question:

Quote:
Based on what's said in the novel it seems that since members of the same caste have similar physical characteristics, would that not make most if not all warriors rather slow?
Which I think would be rather counterproductive, especially when you think about how a destroyer operates.
Unfortunate bad luck of 60's FX.
Of course slow doesn't mean weak or stupid though. the Komodo Dragon is fairly slow in relation to the average speed of nature, but quite tough and formidable all the same.

Science = Varanus

Tactical = Kirk Era gorn evolved / Tough Defenses/ Slow Speed/ Moderate-good sustained damage output

Engineer = "Devs desire" Moderate -Tough defenses/ Slow-moderate speed/ Low-good sustained damage

Quote:
It's pretty much the antithesis to the Gorn warriors who are tough but not very quick.
komodo Dragon has very few natural predators except man. We are the top of the food chain on this planet so we don't count in a situation where the Lizard never died off and rose to dominant civilization.

Quote:
Thank you, I must say sendng it all through a translator is really troublesome
truely it is using twitter.

Not to mention I'm so tired from the freakish weather in the south right now. I've walked forty blocks today because everybody in the city I live in decided to leave at the same time in the middle of an ice storm with parking lot interstates becuase everybody hear got selfish in thier driving styles. I spent an hour driving through parts of my city in an anger driven anxiety attack trying to find the local airport hotel, cursing and screaming at every car for driving like an moron on just wet roads. It luckily turned out for the best after I got directions on 85th & 1st from some local gang bangers chilling in a lot. I must say Thugs for life! I give them props for not giving me **** just directions to the airport, though the CWM aura may have been a factor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-03-2011, 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Exactly. It often seems to be forgotten that Klingon ideology is based around using as little resources as possible for maximum result. This is why the classic Bird-of-Prey and the D7/K'tinga design kept going for centuries. We already have more Klingon ships than are actually feasible would this game stick closer to canon in terms of faction style - what we are missing are the ships of our independent allies which continue to be forced to fly Klingon vessels despite their NPCs having an array of own designs.
Also the principle of Quanity and Redundancy ( for long life) over qaulity. Hence thier warp cores being weaker on average, but thier impulse tech is slighty better giving better comabt speeds. Add in the use of rendundant back-ups and yes while the KDF technolgy is historically back engineered from ancient Hur'q thus givng the Kl;ingon species a jumpstart iinto warp technology the evolved progeny is quite effective if not brutal in its nature.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-04-2011, 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Exactly. It often seems to be forgotten that Klingon ideology is based around using as little resources as possible for maximum result.
Then why do they decomission old vessels like the Bird of Prey Lursa and B'Tor used? Wouldn't it be better to have an extra vessel around, even if it has a flawed cloaking device, then throw it away?

Startrek's SFX budget is responsible for making it "effective" to keep B'rels and K'Tingas around. Real-world logic would suggest that at some point it's better to develop something new to use the new technology.

Not that STO cares much about that - see Excelsior and Galaxy Retrofit.
These ships exist in the game because people want it. I can just fine with that and willing to suspend my disbelief.
People want new Klingon vessels. I am fine with that. They should come.

Quote:
what we are missing are the ships of our independent allies which continue to be forced to fly Klingon vessels despite their NPCs having an array of own designs.
On this point, no disagreement.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-04-2011, 03:55 AM
I'm still in for the D5 and 22nd as well as the Augment BOP.

In addition I would ike to see more Gorn or Naussican designs, without the deathstar flipup
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-04-2011, 04:50 AM
I want to see the BOP cruiser...I think it's the K'Vort, in-game...I would also like to see the D7 I believe it's called as it is the typical KDF ship, but I would want it to be a refit w/ some special power...perhaps they ought to save the best ships for the level cap increase.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-04-2011, 06:03 AM
The point is cryptic needs to gain so knowledge about star trek, for example the neg'var is a battleship that's how it's class everywhere else, here it's a cruiser! so we need a KLINGON SHIP IN BETWEEN A CRUISER AND THE CARRIER in my opinon and other startrek games have wide variety of ships the fed sure do! no license problem there
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-04-2011, 06:19 AM
We are still missing several cannon class ships.

D5
D7
D12
K'Vort
K'Toch
Goroth's ship
and several variations of the Vor'Cha and Neg'Var

There is also an unknown class that was seen in DS9: "Sons of Mogh it used the same model as the Promellian battlecruiser from TNG: "Booby Trap".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-04-2011, 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
It always takes time to get me into a proper state of mind since I don't try to think how I'd build a Gorn ship but how the Gorn would design a ship .
Find your inner lizard :p concentrate focus think green (even though its not easy being green)
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