Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-03-2011, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aevn
So they should return the Klingons to a PVP only faction then to make sure we remain "unique" and make sure we don't have anything the Feds do?
Where did you read that in my post?

I very specifically said, "Personally I'd prefer if both sides were unique, with content that doesn't directly mirror what the opposing faction has."

You'll notice that I very specifically opted for klingon content. Just not content that's copy/pasta of Fed content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I really don't favor imbalanced number of mechanics, period.

This would be a way for Klingons to get something similar WITHOUT it being identical. It has a different look, a different flavor, something iconically Klingon.

Klingon law and Klingon trials are a big part of Klingon culture. How else would you suggest realizing that?
DIalogue-based gameplay? Check.
XP specific to said gameplay? Check.
Levels based specifically to this gameplay? Check.
Transwarp rewards? Check.
Opposing officer reward? Check.
Thematic costume unlock? Check.
Diplomatic Immunity but renamed? Check.
Sorties for the Feds suggested? Check.

The suggestion isn't just similar, it's pretty much identical in function and rewards. And to be frank, I don't even want anything similar. I don't want UFP sorties. I don't want KDF diplomacy. I don't want UFP Raiders. I don't want UFP Carriers. I didn't want KDF Science Vessels.

I want the sides to have stuff that is different. And yeah, I'm perfectly open to the KDF having non-combat content, I'd appreciate it even, but I don't want it lifted from the UFP. I want something unique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Don't like it, don't play it.
This is a non-argument.

Much like you, I've paid Cryptic. That money has gone to further development of the game. No one person has sole say in where the development time those dollars have purchased should be invested.

The suggestion of, "If you don't like it, don't play it," doesn't float since whether or not you partake of content it still effects you because the development time wasn't invested in something you'd rather play.

It's like when someone objects to Federation Carriers or Raiders. Saying, "Hey, if you don't like the Federation having them then just don't fly them!" Sure, you can do that, but their existence still ultimate has an impact on the game everyone is paying to play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-03-2011, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHappyJoyJoy View Post
I want the sides to have stuff that is different. And yeah, I'm perfectly open to the KDF having non-combat content, I'd appreciate it even, but I don't want it lifted from the UFP. I want something unique.
Good, since that appears to be what the OP suggested
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-03-2011, 07:08 PM
how about if you were the advocate rather then the judge and you would have to prove your clients innocents or the guilt of the other party. maybe you find out stuff like your clients being setup like hes taking the fall for some honorless Klingon that's got political power or the likes in so many trek shows.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-03-2011, 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aevn
Good, since that appears to be what the OP suggested
Really...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHappyJoyJoy View Post
DIalogue-based gameplay? Check.
XP specific to said gameplay? Check.
Levels based specifically to this gameplay? Check.
Transwarp rewards? Check.
Opposing officer reward? Check.
Thematic costume unlock? Check.
Diplomatic Immunity but renamed? Check.
It has a different name, and slightly different window dressing, but is it different? Not really. Same form, same function.

If you toss blue nacelles on the Vo'quv and call it a Poseidon Class Carrier, and have it launch Peregrine Class Fighters instead of To'Duj, and Runabouts instead of Birds-of-Prey then it's not a whole new ballgame. It's a Vo'quv with a different theme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingshoebox View Post
how about if you were the advocate rather then the judge and you would have to prove your clients innocents or the guilt of the other party. maybe you find out stuff like your clients being setup like hes taking the fall for some honorless Klingon that's got political power or the likes in so many trek shows.
A more interesting option, if the legal system need be explored, would be to function as a cha'dIch. Be forced to defend the person who's second you are, and track down evidence while they are on trial.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-03-2011, 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHappyJoyJoy View Post
DIalogue-based gameplay? Check.
I'm sorry, but this is just inane.

So, you don't want KDF content with dialogue-based gameplay. . . because the Feds have it?

You don't want any dialogue-based gameplay because it's a COPYPASTA?

Look, the OP had an idea. The implementation of it would need to be adjusted, but to suggest that any form of dialogue-based gameplay is out because YOU feel it's just a copy is ridiculious. It short-circuits everything else you said in the argument (which was otherwise fine) and basically makes you out to say "Klingons should only fight".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-03-2011, 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savnoka
Look, the OP had an idea. The implementation of it would need to be adjusted, but to suggest that any form of dialogue-based gameplay is out because YOU feel it's just a copy is ridiculious.
You realize you're taking a bullet point out of context, right? I didn't list one thing, I listed seven... the rest weren't redundant. That wasn't me saying, "This is why! And here's six other things so I can spike the ball!"

My objection isn't that the system is slightly similar, it's that it's nearly identical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savnoka
So, you don't want KDF content with dialogue-based gameplay. . . because the Feds have it?

You don't want any dialogue-based gameplay because it's a COPYPASTA?
No, I don't want it because as described the system is a direct lift of the Diplomacy system.

It's quite obvious that the Diplomacy system was picked up out of Column A, then placed in Column B then the question was posed, "How do I make this seem klingony?"

It has everything, point-by-point, that the Diplomacy System has, it's just in a different room with a different theme to the dialogue.

Again you're listening to dialogue from a number of people then making choices based on it. You're collecting DXP (renamed JXP). You're unlocking ranks (renamed to sound lawyer-y). Picking up Diplomatic Immunity (renamed Honourable Pardon). Getting the Transwarp abilities. Getting the costume unlock. Grabbing the exchange officer.

It's a direct lift.

I've played this before.

I'm all for more content, and I'm all for klingon non-combat content, but I'm not for taking what one faction has and sticking it directly into the other side's stable.

If you want to do something with the law that will involve non-combat do something that's different. Don't take what the other side had and "kingon-it" don't do a point-by-point adaptation. Make something new and interesting that we haven't already played.

Like I said, do something with the cha'dIch concept where you have to defend someone's honour since they are unable due to a trial, or a challenge to the Council. Have the player track down witnesses, examine crime scenes, collect evidence and try and route out the real culprit. Become the Magnum PI of Qo'nos. Then, if successful, give the player rewards, random ones for repeatable missions and unique level-scaling ones or abilities for scripted ones. The Feds don't have this, it's something new that we haven't done before.

Make the rewards good, but different from what the Federation got.

We don't need direct analogues for every aspect of the Diplomacy system just because the UFP has it. That's just derivative. This is why we have "retrofitted" versions of the Star Cruiser, Fleet Escort and DSSV in the KDF now, and why (based on all the petitioning) we'll soon have Federation Vo'quvs and Raiders.

Wouldn't you rather see new ship types introduced? See new content? Get to experience things that aren't point-by-point already in the game?

There are non-combat things that klingons could do, and rewards that they could get for it, that aren't so incredibly close to what we already have in this game just across the fence.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-03-2011, 09:53 PM
@Leviathan: It's a nice concept, but I am a warrior in the Klingon Defense Force. I'm sorry to say, but personally, I don't think moonlighting as a lawyer would be fitting to the story.

Also, why does the idea of an alternate leveling system for Klignons have to be diplomacy themed? I think what people appreciate about both factions is the different gameplay style that both factions offer. Why can't the theme be something else for the KDF. Besides, Nausicaans are not known for their hospitality and Gorn are quite the xenophobes. I can't imagine feeling immersed with diplomacy while playing as one of those guys. So I'm going to shamelessly plug in the link in my signature.

Though, ultimately, that's my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHappyJoyJoy View Post
I believe to balance the Diplomacy Content the klingons were given exclusive access to their Sorties.
I believe the sorties were actually created to be 1:1 with federation patrols. At least that what was implied.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-03-2011, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grox View Post
@Leviathan: It's a nice concept, but I am a warrior in the Klingon Defense Force. I'm sorry to say, but personally, I don't think moonlighting as a lawyer would be fitting to the story.

Also, why does the idea of an alternate leveling system for Klignons have to be diplomacy themed? I think what people appreciate about both factions is the different gameplay style that both factions offer. Why can't the theme be something else for the KDF. Besides, Nausicaans are not known for their hospitality and Gorn are quite the xenophobes. I can't imagine feeling immersed with diplomacy while playing as one of those guys. So I'm going to shamelessly plug in the link in my signature.

Though, ultimately, that's my opinion.



I believe the sorties were actually created to be 1:1 with federation patrols. At least that what was implied.
I agree and else I can say is.....

Conquest missions.
Battle Circles
That's righ, a warrior of the KDF fighting in an a arena to prove prowess, completing a heculean task or just plain conquest.
That's what leads to what is best in life.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-03-2011, 11:23 PM
So the question becomes: Does the KDF desire/need non-combat gameplay?

Diplomacy is a result of the complaints about the Feds being too combat-focused. Diplomacy makes perfect sense because its a huge facet of what Feds do (along with exploration/science)

Are KDF okay with every mission involving combat? If so, then there's no need to look for a solution to non-combat missions for them.

Maybe someday with revamped exploration (but even THAT is likely to devolve into Conquest, don't you think? )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-03-2011, 11:30 PM
My name is Dyllon McMahon, and I endorse this message.
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