Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 PvP Ballance issues
02-04-2011, 02:05 AM
I have been playing the game for a month after an absence of 5 months more or less. Please bare with me i will try to be brief and to the point. I am a fed who likes PvP and believe me i have done anything humanly possible to make my ship better for pvp but still feds keep losing badly. I agree that klings have more experince but there are issues that dont have to do with experience but with balance.
Is it logical for a science officer to have acces to a ship like a BOP with dual cannons mounted an universal officer slots?
Do the feds have a ship which is a hybrid of an escort and a cruiser ( Vorcha ) ?
And which is a better ship the Neghvar or a Fed cruiser ?
And last but not least which Fed ship can match the carrier and the swarm of pets?
I dont mean to whine, i never do but i am quite frustrated from the fact that i am doing everything i can and still is not enough. And please dont tell me that you can counter all the above mentioned advantages with cooperation...
One last thing, i dont want a fed carrier or for feds to use clpaking but perhaps you could fix the ballance with other ways perhaps adding a squadron of delta flyers for cruisers or give the assault cruiser dual cannons and a bit more turn rate or the cruisers not having tha shared team cooldown since they have crews of 1000 men.
All the above maybe stupid ideas, i dont know, i am only saying i dont want what klingon have, i just want things that will ballance the klingon stuff.
Thank you for reading and i wellcome any creative comments.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-04-2011, 02:15 AM
Do the feds have a ship which is a hybrid of an escort and a cruiser ( Vorcha )? Unless you count the Galaxy X, no

And which is a better ship the Neghvar or a Fed cruiser ? Roughly on par

And last but not least which Fed ship can match the carrier and the swarm of pets? A particular ship? no, but there are some skills that could be used if timed right, such as GW3. But still, more often than not the carrier will get its fighters out.

I don't know how pvp was affected since the last patch nerfed carriers at least a little bit.

But in general, high level pvp sucks ass for feds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-04-2011, 02:18 AM
Couldnt agree more
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-04-2011, 03:53 AM
All i know is that today i saw that APO gets your ship out of EWP. So now that skill is even more useless for cruisers.And it is a fact that aceton skill is useless same with DEM cruisers dont have much to counter a BOP no.But who cares PvP on high lvl in STO have always been terrible, and i say that as a player with a KDF main.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-04-2011, 04:10 AM
PvP can be a terrible experience. The skill of the entire group is what keeps you alive and successful.
Feds seem to be lacking a middle class that's able to take a few and deal some. As an Escorter i can tell you that my role of a vulture (circle cloaked until you find a wounded) can be very frustrating at times.
Cruisers have to approach the Kling Ball together and tank them for a while but i can't help them unless someone is at low health which would be my moment. Uncloaking right when the cruisers enter combat is suicide. Bops cloak away or run, cruisers can take more than i can offer. The cloaking ability of my Defiant is only good for timing my attack, since it's not a combat cloak my escape is very questionable. Pickup group PvP is really bad sometimes. It often happens that i can't engage a single target during the entire round due to misbehaving teammates. I am not a roleplayer but i feel somewhat responsible for my ship and crew, if the match turns out to stay that bad i leave.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-04-2011, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sath View Post
PvP can be a terrible experience. The skill of the entire group is what keeps you alive and successful.
Feds seem to be lacking a middle class that's able to take a few and deal some. As an Escorter i can tell you that my role of a vulture (circle cloaked until you find a wounded) can be very frustrating at times.
Cruisers have to approach the Kling Ball together and tank them for a while but i can't help them unless someone is at low health which would be my moment. Uncloaking right when the cruisers enter combat is suicide. Bops cloak away or run, cruisers can take more than i can offer. The cloaking ability of my Defiant is only good for timing my attack, since it's not a combat cloak my escape is very questionable. Pickup group PvP is really bad sometimes. It often happens that i can't engage a single target during the entire round due to misbehaving teammates. I am not a roleplayer but i feel somewhat responsible for my ship and crew, if the match turns out to stay that bad i leave.
Ha! That is exactly how I try to play! "Vulture" style! I often try to stay above the fight, around 9-12k out
and wait for the Klingon that will try cloaking and running away, with some luck, I can apply ludicrous speed to catch up to him before the cloak kicks in and finish him off.

Yes, I agree, PvP at the high levels is lacing balance....but I haven't played the game in 2 weeks so perhaps the changes to the Defiant R have improved its longevity.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-04-2011, 06:16 AM
To PvP well, I'd suggest trying to specialize and refine your build as well as find teammates worth a hoot.

What type of role are you wanting to do in PvP?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-04-2011, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Is it logical for a science officer to have acces to a ship like a BOP with dual cannons mounted an universal officer slots?
Is it logical for a Science officer to pilot a Defiant-Ret escort. Maybe not but it sure works well in combat.
The BoP is squishy for all its "boogey-man" persona and is not the IWin some think it is.

Quote:
Do the feds have a ship which is a hybrid of an escort and a cruiser ( Vorcha ) ?
They have an Assualt Cruiser with a Com-E/Ltc-E/Lt-S/Lt-T/E-T BOff setup that has more consoles than the Vorcha's Com-E/Lt-S/Lt-E/Lt-T set-up to name one example.
Sure the Cruisers as a whole tend to be a little slower than the KDF but overall they have more in the way of BOffs slots, consoles, base shields and hull points to offset that KDF advantage of betetr turning.

Quote:
And which is a better ship the Neghvar or a Fed cruiser ?
Neghvar for the KDF, Cruiser for the feds.
Thought the BOff slots of Com-E/Ltc-E/Lt-S/Lt-T/E-E are slightly less helpful than the Star Crusier, Assault Cruiser and the fed AH Retro cruiser in my opinion, the Neghvar does have a better turnrate than the average fed cruiser.
That turn rate does not equate to better vessel.

Quote:
And last but not least which Fed ship can match the carrier and the swarm of pets?
None before the buff, as taking out a carrier required iether teamwork (like taking down a cruiser) or knowledge of the carriers weaknesses and a ship built to exploit those weaknesses.

Quote:
I dont mean to whine, i never do but i am quite frustrated from the fact that i am doing everything i can and still is not enough. And please dont tell me that you can counter all the above mentioned advantages with cooperation...
The truth is the truth. The KDF has no Iwin buttons.

The galaxy-retro could sure use a turn rate boost to at least 7 or 8 possibly,but not any higher.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-04-2011, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
I am a fed who likes PvP and believe me i have done anything humanly possible to make my ship better for pvp but still feds keep losing badly.
Spend some time doing FvF PVP and see how you do. The forums are a poor place to discuss perceived "balance" as everyone has their own opinion whether Klingon ships are more or less powerful than Federation vessels and that debate will flame on long after STO has shut down.

One thing that I like to do is watch other players who have the same ship as me (in my case an Assault Cruiser) and see what BO abilities and strategies they use. For instance, I was watching someone be quite effective at using a tractor beam to hold someone in place to cover them in warp plasma while leaving a tricobolt mine between their nacelles. It's hard to learn tricks like that if your side is being constantly annihilated over and over, which is pretty much how every FvK match went for me as well.

I'm not a "serious" PvPer and I've found FvK to be pointless for me to participate in, however in FvF I get a few kills in here or there, the matches seem more balanced and it's easier for me to learn new tricks when I'm with other players who have similar ships.

Good luck!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-04-2011, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
have been playing the game for a month after an absence of 5 months more or less. Please bare with me i will try to be brief and to the point.
Dear god, I wish everyone who had been playing only a month could make a post like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
I am a fed who likes PvP and believe me i have done anything humanly possible to make my ship better for pvp but still feds keep losing badly. I agree that klings have more experince but there are issues that dont have to do with experience but with balance.
*waggles a hand*

Based on my experience with Klinks and Feds I would honestly say the experience is the main reason. The other is that Klingon ships , by canon and by design, are built explicitly for war, and Federation ships aren't. The reason there seems to be issues is a mix of three elements

1) Klingons tend to have to hone their setups and keybindings to perfection. I know that doesn't sound like much, but trust me, it makes a huge difference.

2) Klingons tend to use all of their assets and abilities. Fed players, especially ones who just are getting into PvP, still often have a PvE mindset and simply bring the wrong skills and abilities to the table.

3) Klingon ships , while not unbalanced, are built better for direct DPS. Feds survive better, if they are smart. Unfortunately, focusing down one ship at time means Klingons still usually burn through Fedballs quicker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
Is it logical for a science officer to have acces to a ship like a BOP with dual cannons mounted an universal officer slots?
Yes, it is. Logically speaking, the BoP class would be their most wide-ranging vessel. Tactical officers turn into a fragile but DPSing nightmare, and engies turn it into a DPSing nightmare that's hard to kill. I'll take a sci annoying me with VM any day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
Do the feds have a ship which is a hybrid of an escort and a cruiser ( Vorcha ) ?
Galaxy-X. However, Vorcha vs. most of the cruisers and escorts of it's tier tends (for me) to be a close but fair fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
And which is a better ship the Neghvar or a Fed cruiser ?
Fed cruiser, hands down. I'll take (and have taken) Negh'vars in my Star Cruiser before. It's not easy and you end up nearly dead but it can be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
And last but not least which Fed ship can match the carrier and the swarm of pets?
Any of the cruisers, the Excelsior was my favorite with mines and fire at will spamming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
I dont mean to whine, i never do but i am quite frustrated from the fact that i am doing everything i can and still is not enough. And please dont tell me that you can counter all the above mentioned advantages with cooperation...
No, you aren't coming off as whining.

However, the truth is you can counter a lot of the above issues with good cooperation if the other team is not cooperating. If , on the other hand, your team work is bad, then it's unlikely you can win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
One last thing, i dont want a fed carrier or for feds to use clpaking but perhaps you could fix the ballance with other ways perhaps adding a squadron of delta flyers for cruisers or give the assault cruiser dual cannons and a bit more turn rate or the cruisers not having tha shared team cooldown since they have crews of 1000 men.
The problem with asymmetric adjustments to what is allowed is it makes balance a nightmare once you get from "average" to "really good'. Turn rate on a cruiser is not important if you are fighting it the correct way, power , shields, and the ability to shrug off spike DPS is. Removing the cooldowns would be, I think, a programming thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahalo View Post
All the above maybe stupid ideas, i dont know, i am only saying i dont want what klingon have, i just want things that will ballance the klingon stuff.
Thank you for reading and i wellcome any creative comments.
The best way to balance the Klingons, I say, is give them more PvE content, so they don't have to hone themselves so constantly in PvP to the point where unless you are really good any mistake a new player makes ends up in a ship explosion.
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