Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
My brother and I were discussing this last night while playing, many people like the space combat better than ground (and i'm sure there are some who like ground better than space).

Right now, we can play on Elite difficulty for Space easily, but it makes ground combat ridiculously hard (like we get 1-2 shot constantly).

What i'd love is if we could set our space combat to "elite" and our ground combat to "normal". You could scale the drops on the maps based on what the difficulty is so that in space we'd get elite style drop rates and on the ground would get normal drop rates.

Maybe the ground combat revamp in Season 4 will make ground combat more fun, but right now it gets extremely tedious especially fighting borg elites or a bunch of combat engineers spamming shield regen.

We're both Vice Admirals and played back in the beta then came back a couple of months ago after Season 3. I love the direction the game is going and can't wait to see some of the ideas dstahl has been talking about on the forums!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-04-2011, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironwill96 View Post
Right now, we can play on Elite difficulty for Space easily, but it makes ground combat ridiculously hard (like we get 1-2 shot constantly).
If by "constantly" you mean every single mission, then something must be wrong with your character. I've finished every single story mission in the game on elite and haven't had any problems with the exception of a few space bosses. The 1-2 shotting you described only occurs in generic ground exploration missions with dual pistol elites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironwill96 View Post
What i'd love is if we could set our space combat to "elite" and our ground combat to "normal". You could scale the drops on the maps based on what the difficulty is so that in space we'd get elite style drop rates and on the ground would get normal drop rates.
I don't believe that the devs have the resources required for that task as it would mean revamping all story and exploration missions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironwill96 View Post
Maybe the ground combat revamp in Season 4 will make ground combat more fun...
I'm sure it will. Ground Combat is not as bad as some people make it out to be but it definitely needs a major update.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-04-2011, 08:30 AM
The devs have stated before that having this would further split the partying and grouping mechanics. That is, when finding groups or partying with friends, you get into issues where now you have only 3 levels that split players but with a separate choice for space/ground, that expands to 9 levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-04-2011, 08:41 AM
I disagree with splitting the difficulty sliders. In theory, provided you build a balanced character (balanced being an adequate amount of points smartly invested into both space and ground development), you should be able to handle the challenge of either arena with equal difficulty. This, of course, assumes you're choosing a difficulty setting you can handle. It also assumes the developers have done a fair job at making sure the above holds true; this is particularly important.

Ground and space combat are both important parts of STO. What I personally don't want to see is a system that allows people to ignore an entire side of the game by supporting lopsided builds (especially when you take PvP, fleet actions, and other competitive parts of the game into consideration).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-04-2011, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
I disagree with splitting the difficulty sliders. In theory, provided you build a balanced character (balanced being an adequate amount of points smartly invested into both space and ground development), you should be able to handle the challenge of either arena with equal difficulty. This, of course, assumes you're choosing a difficulty setting you can handle. It also assumes the developers have done a fair job at making sure the above holds true; this is particularly important.
The problem with your theory (that a "balanced charcter" will have equal focus in space and ground) is that minmaxing for one one of: space or ground, is a strictly superior strategy in the curent PvP metagame (because there aren't any PvP game modes that mix space and ground combat).

Quote:
Ground and space combat are both important parts of STO. What I personally don't want to see is a system that allows people to ignore an entire side of the game by supporting lopsided builds (especially when you take PvP, fleet actions, and other competitive parts of the game into consideration).
The cuurent PvP system already does this. So you should either encourage a major overhaul of the PvP system or stop basing your theory on the prsumption that a "balanced" build is not already discouraged by the game mechanics in at least one mode of play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-04-2011, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
I disagree with splitting the difficulty sliders. In theory, provided you build a balanced character (balanced being an adequate amount of points smartly invested into both space and ground development), you should be able to handle the challenge of either arena with equal difficulty. This, of course, assumes you're choosing a difficulty setting you can handle. It also assumes the developers have done a fair job at making sure the above holds true; this is particularly important.

Ground and space combat are both important parts of STO. What I personally don't want to see is a system that allows people to ignore an entire side of the game by supporting lopsided builds (especially when you take PvP, fleet actions, and other competitive parts of the game into consideration).
bravo. well said. and i agree with this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-04-2011, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtlewing View Post
The problem with your theory (that a "balanced charcter" will have equal focus in space and ground) is that minmaxing for one one of: space or ground, is a strictly superior strategy in the curent PvP metagame (because there aren't any PvP game modes that mix space and ground combat).



The cuurent PvP system already does this. So you should either encourage a major overhaul of the PvP system or stop basing your theory on the prsumption that a "balanced" build is not already discouraged by the game mechanics in at least one mode of play.
I think the message here is that if you choose to specialize your build for PvP, you can't expect to have a great build (or great results) for the PvE side of the game. And anyone who plays MMO should be familiar with that setup.

Players with PvP-focused builds can still play the PvE side of the game, but they shouldn't expect to survive on the hardest difficulty settings for PvE content. That should be reserved for players who have focused on more balanced PvE builds, in my opinion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-04-2011, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
I think the message here is that if you choose to specialize your build for PvP, you can't expect to have a great build (or great results) for the PvE side of the game. And anyone who plays MMO should be familiar with that setup.

Players with PvP-focused builds can still play the PvE side of the game, but they shouldn't expect to survive on the hardest difficulty settings for PvE content. That should be reserved for players who have focused on more balanced PvE builds, in my opinion.
more valid points.

this topic has surfaced several times prior as with many others.

your points you make were similar in nature to mine and others. it seems however, that they get ignored as they do not fit with others' points of view that you and i (and other agreeing parties) share.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-04-2011, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
I disagree with splitting the difficulty sliders. In theory, provided you build a balanced character (balanced being an adequate amount of points smartly invested into both space and ground development), you should be able to handle the challenge of either arena with equal difficulty. This, of course, assumes you're choosing a difficulty setting you can handle. It also assumes the developers have done a fair job at making sure the above holds true; this is particularly important.
On the other hand splitting the sliders allows people more flexibility to set a difficulty they enjoy. My character is pretty balanced skill point-wise (I have the standard 7/7/9 allocation for most of the ground abilities using my preferred kit) and I can manage Elite ground missions but I don't want to. Elite space combat is a lot of fun (especially in an escort) but Elite ground combat is tedious at best. As a consequence I end up either running on a lower difficulty or cherry picking missions to avoid ground combat. Even on normal difficulty my first thought on getting a ground mission is "oh great, another ground mission" combined with a sudden desire to hit the warp out button.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtlewing View Post
The problem with your theory (that a "balanced charcter" will have equal focus in space and ground) is that minmaxing for one one of: space or ground, is a strictly superior strategy in the curent PvP metagame (because there aren't any PvP game modes that mix space and ground combat).
Personally I think they should have taken the route used by Pirates of the Burning Sea and had separate skill points for space skills and ground skills although it's probably way to late to implement that now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
I think the message here is that if you choose to specialize your build for PvP, you can't expect to have a great build (or great results) for the PvE side of the game. And anyone who plays MMO should be familiar with that setup.

Players with PvP-focused builds can still play the PvE side of the game, but they shouldn't expect to survive on the hardest difficulty settings for PvE content. That should be reserved for players who have focused on more balanced PvE builds, in my opinion.
In that case they should really look at implementing dual builds. In other MMOs I've played where PvP and PvE have different requirements the game provides the ability to have two different builds on the same character
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-04-2011, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon_Hawkwood
On the other hand splitting the sliders allows people more flexibility to set a difficulty they enjoy. My character is pretty balanced skill point-wise (I have the standard 7/7/9 allocation for most of the ground abilities using my preferred kit) and I can manage Elite ground missions but I don't want to. Elite space combat is a lot of fun (especially in an escort) but Elite ground combat is tedious at best. As a consequence I end up either running on a lower difficulty or cherry picking missions to avoid ground combat. Even on normal difficulty my first thought on getting a ground mission is "oh great, another ground mission" combined with a sudden desire to hit the warp out button.
The problem you're describing here isn't with not having separate difficulty sliders, but the idea that ground combat could be made more appealing. I think even the developers have mentioned numerous times that they would like to see the ground experience improved.

So, yes - if there were separate difficulty sliders, you could keep ground difficulty set to easy so you could breeze through it as quickly and painlessly as possible, but that's not actually fixing the real problem. It's just a way of letting you ignore the problem more easily.

I really have no strong opinions on allowing separate PvE and PvP specs, but it does make me worry that all the PvP builds would end up looking very much the same. Right now there are people attempting to spec for both in one build, which adds a bit to the variety.

And Cryptic would also need to ensure that the PvP build could only be used in PvP matches. Otherwise you'll get players specing for two PvE builds (ground and space), or two PvP builds, or space PvE + space PvP and still complaining about ground PvE not having a separate difficulty slider.
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