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Okay so in DS9 the Defiant has the Registration of NX-74205. NX meaning it's the first of it's class. Then it's regular registration.

Later in DS9 once the Defiant was destroyed they meant to have the second Defiant have an "A" on the Registry but the cost of changing it in stock footage was too much. Strangely unlike the Enterprise the Registry number changed too and the São Paulo kept it's original Registry number despite there being clear evidence that when you rename a ship to another name it's Registry changes too.
The USS Enterprise-A had another name and registry before it's name changed to what it is now.



So, lets assume we can safely say the second Defiant was "A". The first in DS9 had no letter.


Well, what about the U.S.S. Defiant in that Mirror episode of Enterprise? Wouldn't the DS9 ones be A and B then? Naw...

Multiple times in Star Trek we see future ships sharing the same name as a previous one WITHOUT having a letter. I would guess only the ships with amazing preformance actually get to save their registration and letter. Another possibility is that once a new CLASS is made if it adopts a previous ship's name it restarts on the letters.
An example would be the U.S.S. Prometheus which originally was a NEBULA-class Starship involved in Terraforming. Something may have happened to this ship between the time it was on DS9 and Prometheus appeared in that Voyager episode because I'd find it odd to have two ships of the same name and it's unlikely the first Prometheus was simply retired since it was a relatively newish ship (being a Nebula).



So if the U.S.S. Defiant simply didn't take a new letter because it was the first of an all new class that might explain why the Constitution-class Defiant was ignored. The actual reason being that they didn't know they'd make a Connie have the same name but that doesn't exactly count for lore.



So... Lets assume for SOME reason the DS9 registrations are correct EXCEPT that the second was supposed to have an "A". Lets assume they didn't count the Connie because of either the large gap between ships or because the Defiant represented the start of a new class (or for whatever reason)...


The U.S.S. Defiant in STO is the NCC-75633-C.

How are they on C now? Don't tell me they lost A and B in that same 30 year gap. That's horribly unlucky!

If they counted the Connie I think that would just be too much of a stretch. From some examples in canon it's clear that not every ship that shares the same name of a previous ship gets a letter for whatever reason. I think the Original Defiant should stay letterless.



Why C? I think it should still be A. :p
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# 2
02-15-2011, 08:07 AM
U.S.S. Sao Paolo was renamed in Defiant and registry changes as special compensation
so no prefix A or any other letter.
just copy paste from old Defiant
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# 3
02-15-2011, 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meridian113 View Post
U.S.S. Sao Paolo was renamed in Defiant and registry changes as special compensation
so no prefix A or any other letter.
just copy paste from old Defiant

Althought the plaque of the USS Sao Paulo gives NCC-75633 as the registry the NX-74205 is still there on external shots due to cost concerns. When they switched to CG they used the same stuff so it wouldn't change.

Ron Moore has stated that the new ship was the Defiant-A but because of the cost it didn't happen but he considers the new ship to be "A".


So at STO we're at C. Your idea means ignoring the A for the second one (which isn't canon strictly for cost reasons though the creators wanted it to be and consider it to be).

If we do that (which is reasonable but I prefer to think of the second one as A) then in the 30 years the second letterless one along with the A and B were destroyed. That's 3!

Maybe they skipped a few letters to remember the second letterless one and the connie... But that's unprovable in any way.
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# 4
02-15-2011, 08:20 AM
If the name of a previous ship becomes the class of a ship, you don't suffix the name.

The Defiant in TOS was a constitution class ship. The Defiant in DS9 was a defiant class ship.

The Prometheus in DS9 was a nebula class ship. The Prometheus in VOY was a prometheus class ship.

Ron Moore was right. It should have been Defiant-A.
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# 5
02-15-2011, 08:42 AM
I was under the impression that the letter suffix and reused NCC number was a privilege reserved for the Enterprise because of what that ship meant to Starfleet and the Federation. I thought that's why the Defiant's registry number didn't cross over when the Sao Paolo was renamed.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly reform my thinking to what's canon.
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# 6
02-15-2011, 08:43 AM
Please cite your sources when it comes to statements such as "Later in DS9 once the Defiant was destroyed they meant to have the second Defiant have an "A" on the Registry but the cost of changing it in stock footage was too much."

and

"Okay so in DS9 the Defiant has the Registration of NX-74205. NX meaning it's the first of it's class. Then it's regular registration."

Do not cite wikipages as your source, not even memory alpha, I want cold hard proof.

As for NX prefix, it wasn't given to the first ship of that class, but was sometimes given to experimental vessels, such as the USS Excelsior during early testing. When the Excelsior was awarded full operational status, the registry was changed from "NX-2000" to "NCC-2000".

The above is paraphrased from the "Star Trek Encyclopedia" by Michael Okuda, Denise Okuda and Debbie Mirek.
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# 7
02-15-2011, 08:48 AM
Registry numbers in Star Trek, especially later, are notoriously inconsistant (see the Prometheus article for an especially egregious example), and no "system" for how starships are registered that his been mentioned on screen. It's generally thought that ships get their registries in the order they're commissioned, but without confirmation, even that's speculation. However, there are at least three constants regarding Starfleet registries:
  1. The prefix NCC represent a registered starship, while NX represents starships generally considered prototypes. The NX series seen in Enterprise is an exception (the familiar arrangement perhaps adopted later in Starfleet history) and, in theory, most ships labeled NX are eventually changed over to NCC when they enter active service, as per the USS Excelsior (the DS9 Defiant being a notable exception).
  2. With the exception of the Enterprise, no two ships carry the same registry number, even those that carry the name of a predeccessor. As far as I can tell, they don't even carry part of the old registry of their predecessor.
  3. In relation to number 2, the Enterprise is the only ship that carries a letter suffix after its registry (the Yamato being a noted mistake in that regard). The in-universe reason for the Enterprise being the only Federation starship with this distinction is sketchy at best. I have also noted that the Enterprise is the only ship in with the registry number combination "1701," which leads me to believe that registry numbers that end in that combination (i.e. 21701, 61701, etc) are held off for the Enterprise.

So generally speaking, as far as "canon" is concerned, only the Enterprise is given the the distinction of carrying the same registry number as her Constitution-class predecessor (with appropriate suffix), while everyone else is given a brand spanking new registry. As far as the second DS9 Defiant, outside of obvious stock footage, I see no reason why that Defiant would not carry the registry NCC-75633. True, Sisko was given dispensation to rename the ship from Sao Paulo; I don't recall him getting permission to change the registry (and cause a major administrative headache in the process).
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# 8
02-15-2011, 08:56 AM
Indeed;

USS Defiant - NCC 1764 (Constitution Class) did not carry over it's registry to the USS Defiant - NCC 75633 (Defiant Class) ship. This is repeatedly present in numerous future starship registries where two ships carried the same name.
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# 9
02-15-2011, 10:51 AM
I'm not writing a report so I'm honestly not going to bother with super specific "work cited" stuff. Those were always the thing I hated doing the most in my classes...


And we all already know what NX means. Why make THAT the discussion?
Usually the first ship of a class had NX (sometimes in soft canon that would be changed to NCC once it stopped being considered experimental which would make sense since we see other first ships us NCC). Yes, the first ship is often the experimental one.

You see it on ships like the Defiant and Prometheus. Blablabla... sources not cited (oh noes!).


Now that we all agree on that lets get back to the Defiant. I think in game it should be "A". At the highest "B" if the second Defiant of the Defiant-class was destroyed.

Usually I'm all for canon but I like pretending the second Defiant was registered properly since it was just an expense thing...
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# 10
02-15-2011, 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
Usually the first ship of a class had NX (sometimes in soft canon that would be changed to NCC once it stopped being considered experimental which would make sense since we see other first ships us NCC). Yes, the first ship is often the experimental one.
More than soft canon - the Excelsior lost her NX prefix sometime between her introduction in Star Trek III and Sulu's command in Star Trek VI. There's no reason to believe that such a change isn't routine, aside from the fact that the Defiant in DS9 kept hers, even when Starfleet began rolling out other ships of her class (I call laziness on the part of the model makers :p). And as I said, the exception in this was the NX class from Star Trek: Enterprise, in which "NX" represented the ship class rather than a prefix. (When NCC came along, if it wasn't in use before/during the NX-class' service life, is debatable).

Quote:
Now that we all agree on that lets get back to the Defiant. I think in game it should be "A". At the highest "B" if the second Defiant of the Defiant-class was destroyed.
I think the registries in game are pretty screwed as well. The USS Kirk, at least according to the STO Wiki, is said to have the registry of NCC-2000-D. Personally, given the precedence in the series, any ship with a number-letter suffix combination like this should be named after the ship that originally carried it - in this case, the old Excelsior. Probably nitpicking on my part, but there it is.
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