Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-11-2011, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startruck
No one wants expoilts, not the players, not the devs.
The devs don't. The players? Thousands of AE farmers in CoH say you're wrong. :p

Some people want to make VA in a day. Sure, then there's nothing for them to do, but they either don't know that or don't care.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-11-2011, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
OK, so as authors, you suggest we should be able to customize Shields, Armor, Abilities and Weapons. What happens then when a map is filled with very closely packed spawns that are confined by walls so that a player can expose/exploit them with AoE's and rinse-repeat? Didn't you just give us the ability and therefore the reason to grind NPC combatants now? Especially if they're all worth 1-3 SP's anyway? Slaughterhouse missions... you know?
There's a cap on the number of entities you can place on the map. :p

Weren't you in closed beta?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-12-2011, 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor View Post
There's a cap on the number of entities you can place on the map. :p
I refer you to Murphy's law and to a little well-known proverb. About the caps themselves, I doubt they'd stop the exploits, but I'm sure they'll hurt legitimate missions that weren't conceived as NPC-grindfests.

The problem may not be as severe as CoH/V had it, but if farming missions will get better rating than story-based missions that in and of itself is already doing the tool and the community a disservice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-12-2011, 01:46 AM
I think doomsaying something that hasn't even been tried is silly, the sky isn't falling and if someone expolits to get to va in a day who cares? you could start at max level in this game and you'd probably want to go back and do all the starting missions for the story and for something to do.

The argument that someone level capped to quickly won't know how to play thier class is silly too, its a video game not rocket science, it's not like they just got handed the keys to a semi truck and then began driving across country.

the point I am making is what are they going to exploit for? better loot? the most intresting loot we get is craftable and through the weekley episodes.

the economy? making money in sto is so easy that it has no value.

strangley enough because of this STO manages to embody the star trek doctrine of in the future currency is no longer as powerfull.

if someone want to make a tightly packed room of mobs to slaughter so they can wade through it and out of the hundereds of shield batteries they drop they can get one purple it doenst really matter....in the end they will just get bored and want to play something with a story anyways.

I can rip through the enemey signal contacts right now all day if I want, farming drops and it's boring.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-13-2011, 06:21 PM
I'd just want to change the skin. Ex: have one of the pri maide mobs wear the mercenary clothing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-13-2011, 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startruck View Post
I think doomsaying something that hasn't even been tried is silly, the sky isn't falling and if someone exploits to get to VA in a day who cares?
That's not why I care about this issue. The reason why I care is because if someone manages to create a farming mission that catapults characters to VA, people are likely to give it high ratings which may cause such missions to rise to the top of the list at the expense of story-based missions. This was substantiated in the CoH/V UGC system.

If this happens in STO perhaps there will be no consequences, however in CoH/V Paragon Studios decided to reward authors of highly rated missions with extra publication slots because of the success of their missions. This meant that when Paragon Studio finally found out that their close-beta testers warned them about an actual problem, i.e. the exploit-friendly nature of their system, they had to do something about it and some missions were removed, some nerfs were introduced and if I recall correctly some accounts may have been banned.

I don't want to see this in STO. Especially if the SP rewards per NPC are so little as Darren K. previously said. Simply reduce those rewards from 1-3 SP's to 0, and this will ensure that customized enemies are present in the system for the sole purpose they should be in the system: to provide flavor and interest to the story!

Perhaps I'm completely wrong about this and Cryptic already foresaw all these issues and is planning to reward players based on actual combat difficulty by factoring in how much damage the player(s) took and whether or not player characters died in the fight, Captains and BO's alike. Hopefully that's what they'll do and thus we'll be able to enjoy the best of both worlds, superior combat customization and rewarding challenges!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-13-2011, 11:02 PM
You really can't exploit the proposed idea anymore than you can exploit existing mobs. STO doesn't reward mobs deaths significantly and any available exploit for mobs would work on any already in-game.

Debating whether custom mobs (based on the suggestion) would be exploitable is a non-issue. Since mobs are set to 1-3 xp per kill, the best you could hope for is an exploit that would affect existing mobs anyway - meaning it would be pointless to create a custom mob if it awarded no more XP than current mobs.

That's really all the explanation necessary.

Let's take a step back from LordOfPit's strawman argument and focus on what could be improved.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-14-2011, 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor View Post
...the best you could hope for is an exploit that would affect existing mobs anyway - meaning it would be pointless to create a custom mob if it awarded no more XP than current mobs.
Sorry, but that's not the picture I see. The best an exploiter could hope for is a scenario where they completely control the make-up of the enemies so they could in essence customize a enemies that would be completely vulnerable to the player's weapon fire, but the player's character (and his/her Bridge Officers) would be invulnerable to the enemy. Then running that mission, rinse-repeat, would yield better (and more importantly more predictable and customizable) SP gain than running other mission per the setup the player employs.

We already have players claiming they grind NPC's with ease, what makes you think people will shy away from attempting exploits and designing farming missions which will then win more ratings than they deserve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor View Post
...meaning it would be pointless to create a custom mob if it awarded no more XP than current mobs.
That's not the only way exploits work. Exploits work because they are predictable and if you can make two missions, one with Captain-ranked enemies each yielding 3 SP that are easy to fight as a spawn of Ensign-ranked enemies, each yielding 1 SP, guess which mission yields more SP in the long run and therefore may seem skew people's perceptions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor View Post
Let's take a step back from LordOfPit's strawman argument and focus on what could be improved.
Well, other than my warning, there's nothing more to be said basically because (and take this as a compliment) you've captured the whole idea with the first post with your initial mock-up image.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-14-2011, 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
Sorry, but that's not the picture I see. The best an exploiter could hope for is a scenario where they completely control the make-up of the enemies so they could in essence customize a enemies that would be completely vulnerable to the player's weapon fire, but the player's character (and his/her Bridge Officers) would be invulnerable to the enemy. Then running that mission, rinse-repeat, would yield better (and more importantly more predictable and customizable) SP gain than running other mission per the setup the player employs.
Player resistance can already be catered with existing mobs: Borgs use plasma, Klingons use disruptors and kinetic, etc. You could theoretically stack armor and shields against their type and play a mission that way. However, resistances don't stack to 100%.

Simply allowing us to change the weapon type and abilities in predefined template mobs (i.e. 1 captain and three lieutenants) should not be any more of a problem than the above.

It seems that creating a custom mob for an exploit you could do with existing mobs isn't that big a deal, at least to me.

I meant no offense though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-17-2011, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startruck
I think doomsaying something that hasn't even been tried is silly, the sky isn't falling and if someone expolits to get to va in a day who cares? you could start at max level in this game and you'd probably want to go back and do all the starting missions for the story and for something to do.

The argument that someone level capped to quickly won't know how to play thier class is silly too, its a video game not rocket science, it's not like they just got handed the keys to a semi truck and then began driving across country.

the point I am making is what are they going to exploit for? better loot? the most intresting loot we get is craftable and through the weekley episodes.

the economy? making money in sto is so easy that it has no value.

strangley enough because of this STO manages to embody the star trek doctrine of in the future currency is no longer as powerfull.

if someone want to make a tightly packed room of mobs to slaughter so they can wade through it and out of the hundereds of shield batteries they drop they can get one purple it doenst really matter....in the end they will just get bored and want to play something with a story anyways.

I can rip through the enemey signal contacts right now all day if I want, farming drops and it's boring.
*Gives standing ovation and applauds heavily*

Thank you! A VA still has the same amount of skill points as any other VA in game right now. By "exploiting" a feature like this they won't gain any advantage. In fact, they're going to end up not doing as well as if they'd leveled the normal way.
It's far more important to offer players the ability to, not just create costumes for enemies, but determine what weapons they use and such. It just doesn't feel like a new race that I've created when they come at me with the same weapons/behaviors as other enemy groups.
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