Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-11-2011, 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabredruid View Post
just a brief search showed up this to build on for ships

4 warbird types

-Praetor
-D'talla
-D'deridex
-Norexan

1 Reman

-Scimitar

BoP's

3 different BoP types, classes not named though

Battle cruiser

D-7 refit

plus scouts and science vessel

definately enough to base on, The klingon faction had to be filled in with "variations" too and is still incomplete. so still doable

The Cardassians have 3 types listed but easily expandable with variations

Ferengi have the least.

The point is though that these are only the basis. Varieties of ship styles and classes can be developed from these.
Canon sources on the warbird varieties? I linked to Memory Alpha, pretty much the canon source of choice for people backing up their claims.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Romulan_starships

The problem with Variation is you'll see so many people simply don't like it. Why do you think we got a B'rel and Vor'cha refit at T5 when they started doing refits? Why do you think there are T5 versions of the Nebula, Excelsior, Defiant, Galaxy, and Intrepid?

People want the ships they know from the shows.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-11-2011, 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabredruid View Post
just a brief search showed up this to build on for ships

4 warbird types

-Praetor
-D'talla
-D'deridex
-Norexan

1 Reman

-Scimitar

BoP's

3 different BoP types, classes not named though

Battle cruiser

D-7 refit

plus scouts and science vessel

definately enough to base on, The klingon faction had to be filled in with "variations" too and is still incomplete. so still doable

The Cardassians have 3 types listed but easily expandable with variations

Ferengi have the least.

The point is though that these are only the basis. Varieties of ship styles and classes can be developed from these.
Variations are stupid.
The D'talla is basically a D'deridex. I can't find a pic of the Preytor-class which is probably just a stupid.
Romulan Battlecruiser? Vague? It probably doesn't exist.
Cardassian just making variations... wut? You mean all new ships? Or just crappy variations like the Galor to Keldon? New ships aren't that easy to make and if you find the differences between a D'talla and D'deridex acceptable then we're at a major difference here because they're not different enough.

As for the D7, it's a Klingon ship design. It should stay so. They traded for a few a long while back. I don't like the idea of them keeping a Klingon design for too long, especially retrofitting it to a higher tier when even the Klingons haven't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LasseBlutstroemen
I want a third faction implemented with the 2nd one completed, otherwise we risk having another half-assed one.
I agree. This thread and all the ones like it are so sad as to be beyond words.

It's like watching starving people give up on meat and beg for crumbs of bread.

I think, everyone in this thread as well as on this board, the devs included, should look at what the word "faction" means in the context of an MMO.

And then, once the meaning is understood, the customers should demand no less than that meaning.

And guys, I must add that adding the prefix "mini" to the word faction is an oxymoron.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-11-2011, 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harryhausen
I agree. This thread and all the ones like it are so sad as to be beyond words.

It's like watching starving people give up on meat and beg for crumbs of bread.

I think, everyone in this thread as well as on this board, the devs included, should look at what the word "faction" means in the context of an MMO.

And then, once the meaning is understood, the customers should demand no less than that meaning.

And guys, I must add that adding the prefix "mini" to the word faction is an oxymoron.
Courtesy of dictionary.com
Quote:
fac·tion1    
[fak-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a group or clique within a larger group, party, government, organization, or the like: a faction in favor of big business.
2.
party strife and intrigue; dissension: an era of faction and treason.
Quote:
min·i   
[min-ee] Show IPA
–noun
mini- 
a combining form with the meanings “of a small or reduced size in comparison with others of its kind” ( minicalculator; minicar; minigun ); “limited in scope, intensity, or duration” ( miniboom; minicourse; minirecession ); (of clothing) “short, not reaching the knee” ( minidress; miniskirt ).
so if a faction is a group within a larger group than by definition adding mini- to it would not be oxymoronic at all, but simply implying internal strife within said group.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-11-2011, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian
so if a faction is a group within a larger group than by definition adding mini- to it would not be oxymoronic at all, but simply implying internal strife within said group.
Way to completely miss the point.

The definition you cite (which I expected was all i would get) is only part of the meaning when discussing an MMO.

Further, you have simply keyed in on on one word (smaller) to imply "mini" in the context of the definition. It does not.

It refers to the whole being broken into sub groups that are at odds. That's groups of EQUAL status or faction is moot as one faction will always dominate the others. And this equality is paramount in an MMO to provide variety and distiction as well as group association and the rivalry it instigates.

But, you go for argueing semantics to get your crumbs. I'll hold out for a faction that is truely an integral part of the power struggle and depth that makes a true MMO.

It's worth waiting for.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-11-2011, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harryhausen
Way to completely miss the point.

The definition you cite (which I expected was all i would get) is only part of the meaning when discussing an MMO.

Further, you have simply keyed in on on one word (smaller) to imply "mini" in the context of the definition. It does not.

It refers to the whole being broken into sub groups that are at odds. That's groups of EQUAL status or faction is moot as one faction will always dominate the others. And this equality is paramount in an MMO to provide variety and distiction as well as group association and the rivalry it instigates.

But, you go for argueing semantics to get your crumbs. I'll hold out for a faction that is truely an integral part of the power struggle and depth that makes a true MMO.

It's worth waiting for.
I never used the word smaller. In fact had you read what I wrote you would notice I never mention size, instead I utilize both aspects of the definition, both implying part of a whole (the whole in this case being the galaxy) and internal strife within the part.

No I'm being realistic the Romulans do not have enough material to produce a full 51+ levels for, what we will get with a full 51+ levels of Romulan content is a lot of stuff people will complain about.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-11-2011, 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian
I never used the word smaller. In fact had you read what I wrote you would notice I never mention size, instead I utilize both aspects of the definition, both implying part of a whole (the whole in this case being the galaxy) and internal strife within the part.
No, you infered the reverse of the word "larger" which is in the copy of the definition you posted to imply "smaller that the other", which isn't the issue in an MMO. That's why the standard webster's definition isn't the whole story about MMO design.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian
No I'm being realistic the Romulans do not have enough material to produce a full 51+ levels for, what we will get with a full 51+ levels of Romulan content is a lot of stuff people will complain about.
No, you are giving up because you don't want to wait for it. You don't think they can do it, so you are settling.
We will just have to difer on that one.

I suppose being a lifer colors (hah) one's oulook here. I'm a subber, so I can put it down until they get it right or walk away if they don't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-11-2011, 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harryhausen
No, you are giving up because you don't want to wait for it. You don't think they can do it, so you are settling.
We will just have to difer on that one.

I suppose being a lifer colors (hah) one's oulook here. I'm a subber, so I can put it down until they get it right or walk away if they don't.
No what colors my outlook is my KDF experience. I would have rather started at level 20 as a KDFer and had more to do than start at 6 and have what we have. Yes they say they hope to change some of the leveling process for the KDF, but even with that, it will not be enough for 6 to 51+ . I figure even with an abbreviated leveling a Romulan faction will take a year to a year and a half to develop. Anything beyond that, I don't honestly seem the investing the time in because the investment to profit ratio will go down substantially. They'd be better served to crank out retrofits for the C-store than to invest 2 years on one new faction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-11-2011, 03:10 PM
the idea of starting a new faction at commander is pretty solid and alot of good cases have been made. but this is a ST forum and no one is going to talk anyone out of their own ideas. The dev's can read the ideas here and decide what makes since for the game but this thread is starting to look like this
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-11-2011, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by =Varrangian
No what colors my outlook is my KDF experience.
I don't blame you. But, they have said repeatedly they learned their lesson from that and don't plan to make that same mistake.

But, I really have to add that a faction is all about a different type of gameplay in the same game. It's a distict feeling of being different from the other side. The leveling is very important in building this feeling of difference.

You just can't make a few skins and a tiny social hub and hope the Foundry will get you enough good missions to do a faction. That is just way to thin.

It is monster play with the fans writing a few missions.

For me, that is just not MMO enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_Praetori
the idea of starting a new faction at commander is pretty solid and alot of good cases have been made.
I disagree. It throws you into the game with a ship and a skin and no feeling of unique progression to get to that point. MMOs are about progression of one's toon.

Are you guys sure you want to play an MMO?
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