Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-11-2011, 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
Can you maybe enlighten us to the internal logic behind a move like this. Without that, the only input I can offer is simply, I don't like being restricted. By and large I like the skill system the way it is, though the T5 ship skills are getting a bit out of hand, I think simplification of that aspect can occur without tampering with the lower tiers and certainly without restricting them to career=ship class.
I would guess that the internal logic would be that by restricting ship class, while leveling it makes it easier for players, especially those leveling their first, to find it easier to spread their points and make it a 'no-brainer' as to where their points would go. eg, science captains would only buff their science skills, and perhaps there's some overlap with the new duty officer system that makes it make more sense.

Why i disagree with that logic is that veterans will know where to put their points, even for newbies it seems a tad heavyhanded to force skill point simplification. Not to mention, if its meant to funnel skillpoints, why make the other skills available at all? Thumbs down from me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-11-2011, 02:03 AM
If you hate on the idea, then you are banned from canon arguments,

You don't chose what you want to fly in Starfleet unlike what have now. You're a Tac, Starfleet offers you a tac ship or you stay 2nd officer.

At VA or any "A" you should have some pull, before that you are a canon whipping boy.


*****

Disclaimer, idea sounds lame from a MMO point, but from "I want to be only a Captain", it sounds like you should learn to serve and be a lowly Captain.

No I don't like the idea but thought I should point out the double standards that seem to run rampant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-11-2011, 02:03 AM
I always thought the skill system should be cut down to 3 different ship categories
  • Light Starships (Raiders and Escorts)
  • Medium Starships (Science Vessels)
  • Heavy Starships (Cruisers, BattleCruisers, Carriers)

And then the Tier categorization might be
  • Tier 1: Training [Weight] Starships - Ships mostly used for training purposes. (That explains why NX-01 or TOS Constitutions are used - similar as Germany still has the Gorch Fock as a training vessel.)
  • Tier 2: Reserve [Weight] Starships - Indicating older or smaller vessels (which most of them are)
  • Tier 3: Patrol Duty [Weight] Starships - Indicating vessels that mostly operate within the "home territory".
  • Tier 4: Heavy Duty [Weight] Starships - Indicating vessels that perform a majority of functions in and outside the territory of the owning faction - exploration, combat, border patrols.
  • Tier 5: Frontline [Weight] Starships - Indicating the newest and most advanced starships, found in a leading role. (Maybe "Command [Weight] Starships might also make sense).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-11-2011, 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvatarContinuum
I honestly believe the answer to this is the crew system which we still don't know much about. I can imagine it being used to "rebalance" things. If your an engineer on a tactical ship you could have extra tactical positions or something so the 'crew' helps make up for the 'captains' lack of tactical knowledge on the ship, etc. This would allow for the mixed captain/ship classes and fits lore.

Realistically you choose a field and you excel at it and suffer in others. Unless your a genius thats just how life works. You can multitask and do others but you arn't as effective. I believe that's the way it should be in STO as well. If your tactical you would be better in a tactical ship than in a science ship. Your crew becomes the balance.
They actually have answered this though. Kirk had Scotty a "miracle worker" of an Engineer to make sure his cruiser ran smoothly and Spock to make sure he didn't over look the logical solution. Picard had Data to facilitate his own scientific miracles and LaForge to make things run smoothly, Worf to be the strong arm when needed. We have our BO's these are the skills that round out our crew and properly balanced they can make an Engineering Capt. a great commander of a Escort, or a Tactical Capt. a great science ship commander.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-11-2011, 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvatarContinuum
If we were talking about ground combat I know my tactical officers wouldn't be effective as healing as my medics... maybe the new crew system can be used to 'cancel out' those penalties for flying an unmatched ship class or something. It just makes sense to me that fighters fight, fixers fix and healers heal. Sure they can multitask and still get the job done but they should still excel at their chosen field.

Theres got to be middleground somewhere.
If you use the crew system to cancel out penalties instead of adding benefits like ships that have their matching captain the problem remains. It is simply not needed. Not mentioning that the "tactical" ship is something purely made by Cryptic. There never was anything like that on the show, in fact escorts didn't even exist until DS9. Why did they choose Picard to command the Enterprise instead of an engineer? And all ships fight, cruisers are as much built for battle as escorts, just in another way, they were never meant to be "fixing" ships, that would be tenders.
However, there are already benefits for commanding your specific ship class. For example the science captain's abilities profit from the higher aux of the science vessel, the escort has great synergy with the turn rate and damage boosting abilities of the tactical officer etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Glad to see a thread on this topic. There have been some interesting discussions internally about the ship/class restrictions. Intrigued to see more of your input.
Heh, I just realized that there are two threads on the front page that claim you had your worst idea ever in that Ask Cryptic. Don't let it get you down, we just don't want those things to happen (even though I wouldn't have problems with Romulan allies in the Federation).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-11-2011, 02:07 AM
Yeah i'm in the leave things how they are camp for this one. It's good for both existing and new players imo to NOT be locked in to one class of ship if that's how they wish to play. It gives them broader scope to learn more about the game and classes while they're levelling, rather than having to relearn everything at the highest levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-11-2011, 02:07 AM
And the new crew system can expand this beyond just the bridge officers.

Its pretty common sense that if I train how to fight I'm going to be better in a fighting situation than a healing one, thats a no brainer. But if I was forced into a healing environment I could do it but wouldn't be as effective and would depend on those around me to help fill in the gaps.

This could easily become the backbone of the crew system itself with a LOT of thought and planning.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-11-2011, 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maina View Post
You're a Tac, Starfleet offers you a tac ship or you stay 2nd officer.
Riker was offered command of the U.S.S. Drake a light Cruiser, I don't think many would argue that Riker was more of a Tactical officer than Picard. I'm not saying that sometimes you don't get a Tac officer in an escort, or a Science officer in a Science ship (Crusher in the Pasteur), but it doesn't always happen like that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-11-2011, 02:11 AM
Maybe it would be something if STO ever goes free to play. Paying customers can make their characters as they like, those who play for free are locked into archetypes. But since that's not even on the horizon.... Forget I wrote anything.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-11-2011, 02:12 AM
Of course all of these arguments ignore that Starfleet has a fourth branch - command, and most people start some places else before they go to command. STO picked ignoring the command branch and chose to reflect the basic training, not a bad idea, but we should all essentially recognize that we are now in the Command branch (regardless of the color of our shirts).
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