Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 401
03-11-2011, 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarnin View Post
As for STO captain classes, I think they're pretty lame at the moment. And of course the BO abilites, well, most of them should be tied to ship items, not to Bridge Officers. I could see bridge officers improving item abilities, but as it is now, with items improving bridge officer abilities, it's kind of like putting the cart in front of the horse.

Take Tractor beams for example: I'm assuming every ship has a tractor beam installed, it just never gets used. But if you train your BO in some science skills they can catch ships with it! But why science? Tractor beams, in every episode they were used in TNG, DS9 and VOY, were maintained by Engineers. While the mechanism that allows them to work is obviously applied science, their function is totally engineering!

I could go on for days about this, but seriously, abilities being tied to bridge officers is pretty silly when you think about it critically.
Absolutly right, i think there should be a MAJOR overhaul in Skill and BO funktionality, i know STO is just a game, but things have to make sense here too.

Thank you for reading.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 402
03-11-2011, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pryde7
Really don't like the class restrictions. If I'm a Vice Admiral, I don't want to have to keep respec'ing just to switch from Fleet Escort to Retrofit!!!
Me too. I'm in support of less, rather than more restrictions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 403
03-11-2011, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarnin View Post
As for STO captain classes, I think they're pretty lame at the moment. And of course the BO abilites, well, most of them should be tied to ship items, not to Bridge Officers. I could see bridge officers improving item abilities, but as it is now, with items improving bridge officer abilities, it's kind of like putting the cart in front of the horse.

Take Tractor beams for example: I'm assuming every ship has a tractor beam installed, it just never gets used. But if you train your BO in some science skills they can catch ships with it! But why science? Tractor beams, in every episode they were used in TNG, DS9 and VOY, were maintained by Engineers. While the mechanism that allows them to work is obviously applied science, their function is totally engineering!

I could go on for days about this, but seriously, abilities being tied to bridge officers is pretty silly when you think about it critically.
Jarnin, you're spot-on.

- Captain's classes are moronic, IMO. In Starfleet, a Captain is a Captain is a Captain. You don't have 'Tactical Captains' who are career soldiers, or 'Engineering Captains' who act as mechanics. Therfore, it'd be so much more liberating to SCRAP classes entirely, and just give everyone a nice wide pool of multi-discipline skills. Those who want to focus on science/research skills can, as can those who want something more combat-orientated or tech-focussed. Or, alternatively, you can just plough skills into 'starship command'-related skills, rather than spreading out into different areas.

In other words, if you want to be a 'Jadzia Dax' (scientist who's also good in melee combat), or a 'Tom Paris' (a skilled pilot who's also a field medic, plus a dab hand at engineering to boot), you can - just pick whatever skills you want your character to have training in.

- Tie BOff 'powers' to ships - it's not like a tractor beam is carried in an Ensign's back pocket! Instead, let's lose the current 'tac/eng/sci' slots, and have PROPER stations, like the 'helm', 'weapons console', 'ops', etc.

- Similarly, we should have proper BOff skill trees for the different professions, like 'Flight Controller', 'Operations Officer', etc. so we can have our BOffs as working, functional BRIDGE OFFICERS. Assigining cosmetic titles like 'First Officer' isn't enough - we need true starship bridge crews for this to feel truly like STAR TREK.

- Drop the arbitrary classes for starships, too - since when is the Sovereign-class, an anti-Borg battleship, a primarily 'engineering' vessel? Or the Luna class - it's multi-purpose, like most starships, not a mainly 'science' vessel.

Bottom line: Like Captains, 99% of starships are capable of serving in ANY role equally well (obvious exceptions being the Defiant/Oberth classes - and even then, they weren't completely tied to one specialisation).


As has been mentioned before, anything that gives players MORE choice and freedom is only a GOOD thing - particularly when these totally arbitrary restrictions also serve to make this game play and feel LESS like STAR TREK.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I'd like to see ship-specific skills beyond the LC tier (cruiser, science, escort) dropped altogether. I'd rather have a group of accolades for each ship class that provides escalating bonuses based on your actual experience and gameplay with the class.

A better alternative to accolades could be something similar to LOTRO's Legendary Items system where items gain experience and improve alongside characters. Right now my ship is a hollow "vessel" to house components, totally interchangeable if I have the currency to buy another. Something like legendary items would make each individual ship itself intrinsically customized and valuable. This could also be another way to extend the life of lower-tier ships.

Let ships gain experience alongside captains. Use something like the existing skills UI so players can spend experience for the ship like they do now for their characters. Break down the improvements from current ship-specific skills into separate skill lines, letting captains prioritize effects. Either skills or general experience level could unlock extra consoles and bridge stations on lower-tier ships, extending the ship's service life considerably. The ship itself becomes a full-fledged player character.

A respec should only be necessary to correct a major mistake with a build or to deal with fundamental changes to the game mechanics. Changing ships should not be such a life-altering event, nor should it be so easy to rejuggle points to go from 0 to 9 with a single mouseclick.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 405
03-11-2011, 12:35 PM
Instead of ship specific skills, i would rather see play style specific skills. These skills would improve aspects of any ship.

Example Skills:
Shield Efficiency
Hull Strengthening
Combat Turning
Engine Overdrive (speed)
Axillary Systems

The skills would obviously affect their primary focus and possibly have other affects to ship stats or BO abilities.

The idea is that no matter what ship you use, your captain may be tooled to act more as a tank, maneuverable striker, etc. However you are comfortable playing, each ship will be adapted to suit that style (some better than others).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 406
03-11-2011, 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Now THAT (multi-classing) is an idea I could support, but it's a pretty radical change and the whole kit system would need to be redesigned or replaced with something else. It would also play merry chaos with optional objectives in the newer missions.
As someone with way too many mk X kits, the kit system could use an overhaul of some sort. That said, honestly it would just be three new professions for kits. The Infiltrator (Tac/Eng) (Yes, I played too much ME1), the Combat Medic (Tac/Sci)(I'm not really sold on this name), and the Analyst or Technical Specialist (Sci/Eng).

Tac/Eng kits: Infiltrator, Field Technician, Saboteur.

Tac/Sci kits: Combat Medic, Field Analyst, Agent, Covert Researcher.

Sci/Eng kits: Technical Specialist, Analyst, Prototype Field Tester.

Random ideas...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 407
03-14-2011, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkeRealm View Post
As someone with way too many mk X kits, the kit system could use an overhaul of some sort. That said, honestly it would just be three new professions for kits. The Infiltrator (Tac/Eng) (Yes, I played too much ME1), the Combat Medic (Tac/Sci)(I'm not really sold on this name), and the Analyst or Technical Specialist (Sci/Eng).

Tac/Eng kits: Infiltrator, Field Technician, Saboteur.

Tac/Sci kits: Combat Medic, Field Analyst, Agent, Covert Researcher.

Sci/Eng kits: Technical Specialist, Analyst, Prototype Field Tester.

Random ideas...
I like those ideas. You know why? Because it fits very well with what I imagine Romulan kits ought to be like (y'know, when we eventually get a Romulan faction...)

I suspect that providing some form of "multi-class" might be a better alternative than a total overhaul of the Captain Skills system at this point. Throwing the whole Skill system wide open would be like opening Pandora's Box and I think it could create more problems than it would solve at this late date.

I think a "Career Change" mechanic might work better.

Say that at certain Ranks (Lt. Cmdr., Cmdr., Captain) a character gets the option to do a "Career Change". This would allow that character to keep the skills and abilities from his previous career, but freezes them at their current level. Instead, the character can now spend skill points and gains abilities in his new specialization. The character only gets the option to do this once during his career (or once during a respec).

For example, a Science officer who converted to Engineering at Commander would have all of the Science abilities and skills he had at Lt. Cmdr 10, but at Commander 1 is now able to spend those points in Engineering skills and would now gain the Engineering abilties associated with his level going forward. He would not gain the lower-level Engineering abilties he passed by.

At the same time, the kit system could be overhauled into the building of custom kits that would allow the player to select which powers a kit has based on level. This would have the side benefit of giving Single-Career characters a lot more flexibility and the ability to tailor a kit to the skills they've specialized in.

So if, for example, you have an Engineer who does a Career Change to Science at Lt. Cmdr, the custom kit could have only those Engineering powers at a level which would be available to an Engineering Lieutenant, and the Science powers would be those available to a Lt. Cmdr.

This would allow a high degree of flexibility without ignoring the skill 'penalty' that would be associated with a career change (you can either go back and 'fill-in' low tier skills, or ignore them and spend points on the high-tier skills.) This would also force Dual-Career characters to be very specialized to be effective, especially Science officers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 408
03-14-2011, 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I like those ideas. You know why? Because it fits very well with what I imagine Romulan kits ought to be like (y'know, when we eventually get a Romulan faction...)

I suspect that providing some form of "multi-class" might be a better alternative than a total overhaul of the Captain Skills system at this point. Throwing the whole Skill system wide open would be like opening Pandora's Box and I think it could create more problems than it would solve at this late date.

I think a "Career Change" mechanic might work better.

Say that at certain Ranks (Lt. Cmdr., Cmdr., Captain) a character gets the option to do a "Career Change". This would allow that character to keep the skills and abilities from his previous career, but freezes them at their current level. Instead, the character can now spend skill points and gains abilities in his new specialization. The character only gets the option to do this once during his career (or once during a respec).

For example, a Science officer who converted to Engineering at Commander would have all of the Science abilities and skills he had at Lt. Cmdr 10, but at Commander 1 is now able to spend those points in Engineering skills and would now gain the Engineering abilties associated with his level going forward. He would not gain the lower-level Engineering abilties he passed by.

At the same time, the kit system could be overhauled into the building of custom kits that would allow the player to select which powers a kit has based on level. This would have the side benefit of giving Single-Career characters a lot more flexibility and the ability to tailor a kit to the skills they've specialized in.

So if, for example, you have an Engineer who does a Career Change to Science at Lt. Cmdr, the custom kit could have only those Engineering powers at a level which would be available to an Engineering Lieutenant, and the Science powers would be those available to a Lt. Cmdr.

This would allow a high degree of flexibility without ignoring the skill 'penalty' that would be associated with a career change (you can either go back and 'fill-in' low tier skills, or ignore them and spend points on the high-tier skills.) This would also force Dual-Career characters to be very specialized to be effective, especially Science officers.
I don't like it. It's another step along the slippery slope to everyone being the same. You want players to have to CHOOSE an area of specialization so there's a need to work with others. If everyone can do everything, you won't need anyone else. Besides, it's more realistic that way. If I graduate with a degree in Astrophysics, I can't just change my mind and make it a degree in Computer Engineering, after all.
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