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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-15-2011, 01:54 AM
Have to say, i am playing my KDF toon now and the first few levels are passing by nice and quickly. Which is good news. I am mixing up Kahless Expanse with T'ong nebula stuff and i suspect have the vet reward Skill Point bonus is making it a bit quicker than it otherwise would go. New ship soon!

*edit to add* I just looked over Suricata's awesome ship chart to see what my ship options are while levelling, and i really like the flexibility that the BoP with the Universal slots allows me in my BOff setup. My current thought based on that as such, is that i will use those BoP's up to the level when i get my Negh'var then make the jump over to a proper engineering hull/setup vessel. My reasoning is that it will allow me to level in a more tactical manner than i might normally be able to do whilst still keeping a solid engineer BOff (KDF Borg BOff). Thoughts?

Thanks again to those contributing to moving me out of my KDF nubness
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-15-2011, 02:17 AM
Suricata is a good man. I've actually known him not only on STO but on another MMO. Sadly he's moved on to other things and his ship chart is wildly out of date. Spidermitch's thread is very up to date and is far more comprehensive because it was built originally on the work that Suricata did.

The complete listing of KDF ships.

The complete listing of Fed ships.

Know those, love those. They do get updated often so I recommend bookmarking the links and not necessarily saving the pictures.

Edit: Also just noted that BoP's have exactly 2/3rds the base hull of the base hull of the same tier KDF battlecruiser. At the Neghvar/Vorcha-R level the two cruiser's HP's differ and the BoP maintains the 2/3rds HP value of the Vorcha-R at that point. Just a random observation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-15-2011, 02:28 AM
Again, that's awesomely useful info. I knew there was another chart around i just hadn't gotten around to looking for it. Thanks. So far i'm gonna go out on a limb and say the time invested to level would be best served just parked in the kahless expanse rather than mixing in some T'Ong nebula stuff. The T'Ong nebula stuff takes longer and while you get anomalies, the pretty much endless supply of fed ships in the kahless expanse just means you can keep on grinding until your brain starts to drip out of your ears. So that said, is there similar areas to the Kahless expanse in each tier? Because i suspect that's how i'll do most of my KDF levelling if so.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-15-2011, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadscythe
Again, that's awesomely useful info. I knew there was another chart around i just hadn't gotten around to looking for it. Thanks. So far i'm gonna go out on a limb and say the time invested to level would be best served just parked in the kahless expanse rather than mixing in some T'Ong nebula stuff. The T'Ong nebula stuff takes longer and while you get anomalies, the pretty much endless supply of fed ships in the kahless expanse just means you can keep on grinding until your brain starts to drip out of your ears. So that said, is there similar areas to the Kahless expanse in each tier? Because i suspect that's how i'll do most of my KDF levelling if so.
Yes there is a version of the Expanse for every tier. That's the nebula's and such you see inside the sector blocks and not the ones on the outer boarders. Azure Nebula (Filled with Romulans) I think is your next stop. But the problem with those Empire Defense missions is every tier you have to kill more and more of them. Imo it's better to do stuff like the T'ong nebula. Maybe not that one but the next tier. I certainly love the Azlesa (sp?) Expanse (Lieutenant General rank exploration stuff) versus the T'Kanis Nebula (Highest tier Empire Defense, Borg). And here's the reason why.

The absolute worst randomly generated mission I have ever encountered in the exploration missions are "Kill 8 enemy squadrons". Squadrons as you probably very well know are 3 frigates, or 1 escort, or 1 sci ship, or one cruiser, or one boss cruiser(only really ever encountered at the end). Now remember what I said about the Empire Defenses requiring you to kill more squadrons? The T'Kanis requires you kill -16- squadrons to finish it one time. AND you have to finish it three times to get the reward. That is 48 squadrons (Which could mean 48 cubes, or 48 spheres, or 144(!!!) probes). For a total reward of ~500 skill points, ~500 BO points, ~600 honor, and 75 Badges of Exploration 5th Order.

By comparison I think at my level I get a little over 200 skill points, 200 BO points, I think 25 Badges of Exploration 5th Order(If you do the Brigadier General level) , and not sure how much honor for doing the Azlesa Expanse once. So that's at worst, 8 squadrons for 200. Which means to get the same reward as grinding the T'Kanis nebula I'd have to kill 20 squadrons. Empire Defense at max level is less than half as effective as grinding exploration missions.

But at the first tier or two(maybe three) you may want to do the Empire Defense. I can't though. I need variation from the Exploration missions or else my brain leaks out my ears. However, I will let you in on a secret. A one time (Per Empire Defense zone) only thing you can do for a skill point boost.

Let's say your next Empire Defense is in the Azure Nebula against the Romulans. You are given a mission to go there and let's say they want you to kill 8 squadrons. Go there, blow up some Romulans, and get the 8 squadrons done with. -Do not warp out-. Stay there and hail Mara, the person who gave you the mission. You complete it then and there and then she offers you the repeatable version. There are minimum 2 quests per Empire Defense. One to get you there and defeat some squadrons, and a second that is the actual repeatable one. The repeatable one always has as a target number of squadrons more than the one that sent you there. So let's say the repeatable one for the Azure Nebula needs 10 squadron kills. Well if you turned in the first one and accept the repeatable without having left, you might be very happy to see that the mission when it comes up in your mission log window says Squadrons Destroyed 8/10. It -counts- the previous mission's kills to the second one. Allowing you to complete the second mission in no time at all and turn around and have it completed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-15-2011, 06:52 AM
Quote:
Suricata is a good man. I've actually known him not only on STO but on another MMO. Sadly he's moved on to other things and his ship chart is wildly out of date. Spidermitch's thread is very up to date and is far more comprehensive because it was built originally on the work that Suricata did.

The complete listing of KDF ships.

The complete listing of Fed ships.

Know those, love those. They do get updated often so I recommend bookmarking the links and not necessarily saving the pictures.

Edit: Also just noted that BoP's have exactly 2/3rds the base hull of the base hull of the same tier KDF battlecruiser. At the Neghvar/Vorcha-R level the two cruiser's HP's differ and the BoP maintains the 2/3rds HP value of the Vorcha-R at that point. Just a random observation.
He really seems to work hard to keep it up to date, but there will always be an occassional error in it. A big problem is that in-game information is not always accurate, and you cannot nullify the effect of effects from equipment for some stats. (Turn Rates is the worst case - You'll never see any of your ships listed exactly with the turn rate it is supposd to have officially.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-15-2011, 09:51 AM
@Princess:

I see exactly waht you mean and I probably will do everything i can to stay the hell away from the space zombies...err i mean Borg (see my thoughts on the Borg in a thread from a few days ago :p ). At Tier 5 I'll likely swap to Exploration. The one thing you left out though i noticed is the skill point gain per kill in addition to the reward for the t5 Empire defence. Either way, you're likely still right about the explores being better per time invested.

*edit* I saw your earlier post also mentioned the -25% hull strength Having had a think about it, to me that's no big deal and sorta plays quite well into the hands of an engineering pc. I tend to run pretty high shield power settings and it might be interesting on this ship to have a play with resilient shields with some [Cap] bonuses to minimise the hull bleedthrough whilst still having a pretty solid shield figure to play with.

Btw - interesting avatar. I can't make out what the word on the shirt is and it drives me nuts >.>
Thanks again for the info - i'm very appreciative of you passing along your opinions and experiences it's very helpful.

@Mustrum:
Yep i am not really concerned about 100% accuracy on the tiny details like combat stats etc. I just use them for finding out BOff slots, console slots and which correlates to a Fed Cruiser, Escort or Science Vessel. The effort the author's put into them is awesome and i really like the work he's done on them and am happy he's maintaining it.

I got to Lt 10 and a third last night before my brain started dribbling out of my ears and i hauled my sorry butt off to bed, so that's about 4 grades in one sitting which i was pretty happy with. Obviously i know that's going to slow down the higher i get but it means i'll likely be out of the earlier tiers quicker than i expected, which really was my main worry. I can see i am gonna have a boatload of tier badges at each level (i think i am approaching 700 Tier 1 already) and i'm assuming they're as useless here as they are Fed side?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-15-2011, 10:33 AM
A common misconception is that the person in the avatar of this account is me. It's not. It's PrincessKatrina, my room mate. She hasn't played STO actively for a long time. She's also more prone to play Fed side. We have our own characters on the account and she lets me use it because it's a life time sub and she's taking a hell of an extended break from it. And for those that have seen @PrincessKatrina in game, 99% chance it was me. (Lt. Gen Sirse, Orion Science Officer in a VoQuv. Lt. Gen Voxus, Liberated Borg Klingon Engi in a Negh, and Commander Nisy, Alien Fed Tact officer. All the rest of the characters on the account are Katrina's).

Also the shirt says OMG Pwnies!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-15-2011, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKatrina View Post
Yes there is a version of the Expanse for every tier. That's the nebula's and such you see inside the sector blocks and not the ones on the outer boarders. Azure Nebula (Filled with Romulans) I think is your next stop. But the problem with those Empire Defense missions is every tier you have to kill more and more of them. Imo it's better to do stuff like the T'ong nebula. Maybe not that one but the next tier. I certainly love the Azlesa (sp?) Expanse (Lieutenant General rank exploration stuff) versus the T'Kanis Nebula (Highest tier Empire Defense, Borg). And here's the reason why.

The absolute worst randomly generated mission I have ever encountered in the exploration missions are "Kill 8 enemy squadrons". Squadrons as you probably very well know are 3 frigates, or 1 escort, or 1 sci ship, or one cruiser, or one boss cruiser(only really ever encountered at the end). Now remember what I said about the Empire Defenses requiring you to kill more squadrons? The T'Kanis requires you kill -16- squadrons to finish it one time. AND you have to finish it three times to get the reward. That is 48 squadrons (Which could mean 48 cubes, or 48 spheres, or 144(!!!) probes). For a total reward of ~500 skill points, ~500 BO points, ~600 honor, and 75 Badges of Exploration 5th Order.

By comparison I think at my level I get a little over 200 skill points, 200 BO points, I think 25 Badges of Exploration 5th Order(If you do the Brigadier General level) , and not sure how much honor for doing the Azlesa Expanse once. So that's at worst, 8 squadrons for 200. Which means to get the same reward as grinding the T'Kanis nebula I'd have to kill 20 squadrons. Empire Defense at max level is less than half as effective as grinding exploration missions.

But at the first tier or two(maybe three) you may want to do the Empire Defense. I can't though. I need variation from the Exploration missions or else my brain leaks out my ears. However, I will let you in on a secret. A one time (Per Empire Defense zone) only thing you can do for a skill point boost.

Let's say your next Empire Defense is in the Azure Nebula against the Romulans. You are given a mission to go there and let's say they want you to kill 8 squadrons. Go there, blow up some Romulans, and get the 8 squadrons done with. -Do not warp out-. Stay there and hail Mara, the person who gave you the mission. You complete it then and there and then she offers you the repeatable version. There are minimum 2 quests per Empire Defense. One to get you there and defeat some squadrons, and a second that is the actual repeatable one. The repeatable one always has as a target number of squadrons more than the one that sent you there. So let's say the repeatable one for the Azure Nebula needs 10 squadron kills. Well if you turned in the first one and accept the repeatable without having left, you might be very happy to see that the mission when it comes up in your mission log window says Squadrons Destroyed 8/10. It -counts- the previous mission's kills to the second one. Allowing you to complete the second mission in no time at all and turn around and have it completed.
I could not have put it better myself when it comes to leveling based on KDF pve. Very well put and right on the mark when it comes to Empire defense.

Good job person behind PrincessKatrina's avatar.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-15-2011, 12:20 PM
Well cause i have weird sleep patterns due to medication and such i got up around 4am and played a bit more. I got my new BoP and sicovered it has the Battle Cloak which could be quite useful. I am using a pretty simple BOff set up atm

Ens Sci: Polarize Hull I
Ens Eng (Borg BOff): EPtS I
Lt Tac: HYT I and CRF I

So far i am actually enjoying the combat more than i ussually do fed side, the BoP is very agile which i like and i tossed some green Mk II DHC's onto my new ship from the boatload of T1 Badges i got while getting to Lt Cmdr. I'll replace em with some Mk IV's as soon as i get a couple of badge runs done. Atm i am looking into the PiCanis Sorties. Seems kinda ok...bit bland though but not hard so far by any means.

*edit* oh and I didn't really figure your avatar was you, i tend to try not to assume peoples avatars directly represent them - though mine may be an exception :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-15-2011, 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
I could not have put it better myself when it comes to leveling based on KDF pve. Very well put and right on the mark when it comes to Empire defense.

Good job person behind PrincessKatrina's avatar.
Thank you for the compliment. I generally don't have alot of time to play on STO usually so figuring out stuff like that has been helpful. Also calling me either PrincessKatrina or Sirse would do fine. I'm very used to the first one and the second one is my main in STO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadscythe
Well cause i have weird sleep patterns due to medication and such i got up around 4am and played a bit more. I got my new BoP and sicovered it has the Battle Cloak which could be quite useful. I am using a pretty simple BOff set up atm

Ens Sci: Polarize Hull I
Ens Eng (Borg BOff): EPtS I
Lt Tac: HYT I and CRF I

So far i am actually enjoying the combat more than i ussually do fed side, the BoP is very agile which i like and i tossed some green Mk II DHC's onto my new ship from the boatload of T1 Badges i got while getting to Lt Cmdr. I'll replace em with some Mk IV's as soon as i get a couple of badge runs done. Atm i am looking into the PiCanis Sorties. Seems kinda ok...bit bland though but not hard so far by any means.

*edit* oh and I didn't really figure your avatar was you, i tend to try not to assume peoples avatars directly represent them - though mine may be an exception :p
My only suggestion at all would be possibly changing Polarize Hull to Hazard Emitters. Not sure of the exact numbers but I would guess that being able to heal X damage on you or any friendly ship as well as receive a damage resistance buff of Y would be better than a slightly stronger than Y damage resistance buff only on yourself. Though the ability to tell Tractor Beams to bugger off is nice. If you want you could actually pretty easily tote around two Sci officers and switch when out of combat to suit the situation. My preference is generally to make sure healing is covered first though, then resists.

And no harm no foul with the avatar. It is in fact a picture of the person who truly owns this account anyways, so people who think that is me are right to do so. They are wrong, but they would be right if she still actively played. I don't change the avatar because she doesn't want to give up the account yet and I fully respect that.
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