Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-17-2011, 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amphigory View Post
why go thru the whole thing of Data's death, only to have him come back?
Ask comic books... Marvel's been doing it so long even the other X-men heave a collective sigh when Jean Gray comes back from the dead again. And Marvel hasn't been at it long enough to ever catch up to DC.

Which has a lot to do with why I didn't like Nemesis. I didn't mind the JJ Abrams Star Trek, I could actually deal with Star Trek 5 if only because it created a separate faction of Vulcans that weren't like robots for six years out of seven. I don't even mind Star Trek 4 because it's a Star Trek movie my wife will watch with me and not get bored of.

But Nemesis just felt too much like why I quit reading X-men around the time a clone of Jean Gray from the future summoned a parallel universe version of Jean Gray who then joined the X-men after the clone subsequently died. The whole Dune Buggy thing goes in there, too. If there's anything comic books like more than resurrecting dead characters it's completely random out-of-context action scenes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-17-2011, 02:23 AM
I liked Insurrection.

The way Picard destroys everyone with his morality monologues is epic. And the movie touches on subjects that are very interesting, like Trek should be.

Nemesis was largely unnecessary. And why kill one of the main charcters only to bring him back five minutes later ? As i said unnecessary.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-17-2011, 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amphigory View Post
why go thru the whole thing of Data's death, only to have him come back?
See: Spock

Basically the actor (Brent Spiner) didn't want to play Data anymore, (he felt he was aging too much to convincingly play the unchanging android) but having a back door written in to have the character resurrected if need be. Ala Spock putting his katra into McCoy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-17-2011, 02:28 AM
Personally, I like them all. I can still even sit through The Final Frontier. But what do I know?

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-17-2011, 02:35 AM
i dont mind nemesis but it could have been so much better.

i see the movie in two halves.

part 1 has a wedding that does not quite work, humour that is not that funny, the whole b4 thing is weak and has been done before, the chase with the argo seemed out of character for picard, (not only did they say the planet was safe when it was not, they just broke the prime directive) and even worf seemingly scared by the hand grabbing him.

the second half i loved. dark and menacing, shinzon becoming more evil as the film went on, loved the space battle and the emotion. was not happy data died but i actually liked the fact his memories were put into b4.

i blame the director a lot for most of the mess but i still enjoyed it for what it was. i actually remember when i came out of the cinema thinking it was one of the best films and on par with first contact, just time and repeated viewing has brought me back down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-17-2011, 02:39 AM
Oh yea forgot to mention Insurrection: I actually enjoyed this movie, and thought it was a "light" movie compared to the other TNG movies, and showed the actors were having fun with the story etc (they came across as really relaxed). I didn't have any problem with the movie (I kinda consider this the TNG's Voyage Home hehe)

With regards to the Data death thing. Yea I know there's a parallel with Spock. I just don't feel it was well written and/or portrayed in the movie (hence, for me, the feeling of it being pointless).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-17-2011, 02:58 AM
A director who hated the franchise... hm... sound familiar anyone?

Isn't that just like who we've got in charge of Trek now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-17-2011, 02:59 AM
I thought Nemesis was kind of cool. Not great. But it could have been. just watch some deleted scenes they are fantastic.

the thing about Data's death was the same as with Picard's clone: The movie tells the story about how experiences form a character and not it genetic code. That is why Shinzon was so different from Picard and the end-scene with B4 is so important.

Data copied his experiences into B4, who - by slowly processing them - gradually turns into Data.
A few things that would have made the movie so much better:

- NOT cutting the scenes they did (except perhaps the stupid seat-belt-scene)
- let Patrick Steward play Shinzon
- cut Troi's slightly stupid mind-****-scene


I also liked Insurrection. I felt it was a well-told story.
But seen from the POV of a Star Trek fan, I absolutely hated the new JJ Abrams Star Trek. While I feel it is a nice sci-fi movie that's a lot of fun to watch, has great effects and an awesome soundtrack, it is just no Star Trek movie. It actually feels more like a Star trek spoof by laughing about canon and established technology.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-17-2011, 02:59 AM
The only movie even remotely tapping into the Trek spirit, is ironically the Motion Picture. The only real movie where the unknown is trully indulged and explored. It had more of a "Rendezvous with Rama" concept (from Arthur C. Clark) and it was easier to follow.

By far my favourite movie. Every movie after that was purely visual effects and one liners. I normally just skip between battle scenes :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 30
02-17-2011, 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
I still agree with Plinkett.

Nemesis = Clunky, horror movie version of Wrath of Kahn. :p
Also, the Scimitar was like the worst fan**** Villain Sue ever.
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