Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
02-22-2011, 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam062307 View Post
In some states they do if you are never caught and convicted! and criminal felonies are a bit of a jump from forum infractions. Just saying!
Felonies are federal crimes. A conviction or warrant does not expire regardless of the state as far as I understand. The statue of limitations running out is something else entirely.

As for felonies vs infractions.. You brought up real world crimes and punishments as an analogy in your post.. I was expanding upon your analogy.

In my opinion, a warning is like a forum misdemeanor and an infraction is like a forum felony.

If someone posted real-life threats to me I certainly would not consider it minor, nor would I want such actions to be "forgotton" over time. Such things are as serious as it gets on this video game forum and should not be dismissed... Just like a felony.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
02-22-2011, 08:50 PM
Dang, i'm on the forums every day, & I've never even gotten a warning, much less an infraction, am i doing something wrong?
A perpetual infraction seems kinda harsh IMHO, Although if I had to read through all the BS the Mods have to, I'd probably be a little harsh myself. & from what I have seen, most of the posters who've been banned clearly earned it.It's not like a Mod will swing the banhammer on you just because you're very angry when you post something once.
I had a CS issue & posted something after about 5 shots of tequila that I never would have posted sober, & when I woke up the next AM I edited it myself because I felt like a fool. kinda toned it down a bit.
I'm glad that post never got reported
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
02-22-2011, 08:52 PM
ummmm....no...while there are federal felonies, Just because a crime is considered a felony doesn't mean it is federal. Many states have a common law system that incorporates misdemeanors and felonies. Typically a crime falls under federal jurisdiction if it crosses state boarders or has to do with a federal entity. Other than that, states handle their own crimes.

Edit: Just occurred to me that you might not be speaking of US law, which is what I"m referring to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
02-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam062307 View Post
ummmm....no...while there are federal felonies, Just because a crime is considered a felony doesn't mean it is federal. Many states have a common law system that incorporates misdemeanors and felonies. Typically a crime falls under federal jurisdiction if it crosses state boarders or has to do with a federal entity. Other than that, states handle their own crimes.

Edit: Just occurred to me that you might not be speaking of US law, which is what I"m referring to.
The point was, that felony convictions and warrants in the US never expire... Just as I believe infractions should not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
02-22-2011, 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asakara
The point was, that felony convictions and warrants in the US never expire... Just as I believe infractions should not.
Felony convictions never go away, they are always on your record. You are right. As far as warrants go. Innocent until proven guilty. And if you aren't proven guilty or even caught for a certain length of time, the warrant does expire. Statute of limitations. the only exception I know of is heinous crimes such as murder.

In other things, warnings should be like speeding tickets, low infractions (1-5 pointers) should be like misdemeanors and go away after a year, Threats should be instant banhammer!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
02-22-2011, 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam062307 View Post
Felony convictions never go away, they are always on your record. You are right. As far as warrants go. Innocent until proven guilty. And if you aren't proven guilty or even caught for a certain length of time, the warrant does expire. Statute of limitations. the only exception I know of is heinous crimes such as murder.

In other things, warnings should be like speeding tickets, low infractions (1-5 pointers) should be like misdemeanors and go away after a year, Threats should be instant banhammer!!!
Obviously IANAL - But for our purposes an infraction would be a conviction as the crime has already been judged.

I appreciate that you would want to give people a 2nd chance... The way I see it is that they have 20 chances until ban hammer..

Is 21+ chances (because some infractions disappear) really necessary or going to make a difference?

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
02-22-2011, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekrit_Agent
Agreed with above poster.

Personally, I find Stormshade's point of view needlessly harsh and bordering on draconian. I can appreciate the perspective as a moderator but come on, even RL courts will expunge a record after a period of keeping your nose clean without the threat of being jailed forever if you reoffend later.

But you have the power to choose what you want to do up until you hit the limit. "Improve" your posts, delete them, or just dial back your participation period. And if you're really cheesed off, do what dstahl suggests and vote with your subscription.
Yeah, no there is nothing draconian about his position.

As a fairly regular poster and a lifer since beta I haven't received an infraction, warning, or had a post edited as far as I know. Its not difficult it only takes some self control and If you don't have that then you shouldn't be posting.

I think his stance has merit, you shouldn't need to be told more then once what is within the rules and what is not. If you continue to break the rules then you are punished, don't break the rules and you won't get infactions/banning.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
02-22-2011, 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
If you have a complaint about an interaction you've had with CS, there are steps you can take to voice those complaints. Up to and including PMing me. Please do not go into details on the forums however. In the end, no one (neither you, nor us at Cryptic/Atari) end up benefiting from such conversations.

These conversations were started in private, and to protect your privacy, we need to keep them that way. If we didn't care about your privacy, we may very well have a section of the forums called, "Why did I get banned?" Other companies have this, and I can't say that it makes either party look great.



I made the call to have infractions become permanent, and I don't think anyone will ever be able to change my mind regarding this. We're an MMO, we're going to be here for a long time, and we want you to be here as well.

However, having 3 days a year where you feel you can't be responsible for your own actions on the internet doesn't fly for me. I work on the internet, and I have to be responsible for what I do on the internet every day of the year. We are all humans here, and most of us are adults. This means that we are always responsible for our actions. On the internet, or off. My suggestion to you, if you're having a day when you don't feel you can be responsible for your own actions on the internet, either stay off the STO forums, or stay off the internet.

We all get in moods. We're also adults and can learn to identify when posting something is going to get us into trouble. Your actions on these forums have a lasting effect, and as long as I'm running these forums, this will always be the case.

Thanks,

Stormshade
I appreciate the alternatives, in the future if my experience is less than satisfactory I will send you a PM. Thank you for the option. I understand that you folks do not want bad experiences grieved in a public forum for a variety of reasons, but in all honesty I have not seen much alternative/information aside from now Pming you. (customer service escalation/ unsatisfactory service). I would be more open to a PM, because it would make me feel better and actual person would look at my issue, then what feels to be the deep dark GM ticket queue.

Thank you for your feedback!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
02-22-2011, 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
IHowever, having 3 days a year where you feel you can't be responsible for your own actions on the internet doesn't fly for me. I work on the internet, and I have to be responsible for what I do on the internet every day of the year. We are all humans here, and most of us are adults. This means that we are always responsible for our actions. On the internet, or off. My suggestion to you, if you're having a day when you don't feel you can be responsible for your own actions on the internet, either stay off the STO forums, or stay off the internet.

We all get in moods. We're also adults and can learn to identify when posting something is going to get us into trouble. Your actions on these forums have a lasting effect, and as long as I'm running these forums, this will always be the case.

Thanks,

Stormshade
As a fellow moderator (not affiliated with STO), I completely agree with Stormshade's policy.

If I can be responsible for my actions, so can you. If you don't want to be held responsible for your actions, don't post on the forums!

Anonymity != Anarachy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
02-23-2011, 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekrit_Agent
...or just dial back your participation period.
This is exactly what I did.

Every time I am confronted with a topic I weigh the value of the topic (on a personal level ie. how passionate I am about it), and the value of what I want to contribute, against my hypothetical value of an infraction. Taking into account the trending pattern of individual responses to the topic as well as the quantity of responses to the topic. Long story short, I very rarely post and often if I post anything more than one line it will be of the complete opposite opinion of everyone else in the topic. If it is the latter, one of two things will happen.

Either:

1. I'll get flamed until my monitor catches fire. :p

or

2. Other people who disagreed with the original trend will begin posting.

Many times if I want to post an original topic I'll be extremely brief. I may follow-up with numerous long responses once a discourse has begun but my initial post will attempt to provide nothing other than the facts and pose a question. Thus, allowing people to discuss. Of course, there are some people who will only bother to read the original post and provide a one word answer, that is their choice.

Exceptions include:

Topics unrelated to game development.

Bug reporting. If I'm on Tribble and I see a bug I'll drop by the forums and if it hasn't already been reported I'll make a post. Or, if it has I'll elaborate on any information I can.


Tl : Dr

Every time I post I'm willing to take the risk of getting an infraction.
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