Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-28-2011, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felderburg View Post
You can play ground on Elite and breeze through it with four Engineer BOs that have turrets... Heck, I do it on an Eng captain with 3 BOs with 3 turrets, and another who has a turret and a support drone.
This is my basic setup. I have three engineers with an array of phaser turrets, a support drone, and a mix of mines and shield recharge for ensign skills, and a science officer stacked with four heals.

I myself am a tac captain with a fire team kit. Make good use of ambush and you can put out some huge burst damage with two sniper rifles, or more distributed group wide damage with two splitbeams. The combination of my own burst damage and a huge number of turrets is impressive.

It's made ground combat on elite go smoother than space combat does in my advanced escort. Not as fun, it actually can get boring pretty, but aside from elite tactical drones (which still die very quickly once their invincibility is gone) it's easy to just get ground combat over with. Heck, aside from swordmasters and Federation/Terran healers, I don't even need to bother picking targets - I sweep through with little effort just tab targeting whatever's in line.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-28-2011, 03:46 PM
Interesting thread. Thank you for the guide AzureAngel, I learnt a lot. Personally I've always enjoyed ground combat, this thread will help me enjoy it more. It will be interesting to see what Cryptic have planned for their ground combat fixes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-28-2011, 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureAlliance View Post
You can get other people to help you.

Other people to help you.

Other people.

To help you.

...I do not understand!

jk, in all reality, great guide. Though in PVP, fire team is excellent for a Tac. It's also good against tough enemies like swordmasters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-28-2011, 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatricianVetinari
Empathic
Increases Team Health Regeneration.
Race: Betazoid

Limited Telepathy
Improved Stealth Site and Expose Duration.
Races: Trill, Vulcan

Lucky
Increases Critical Chance.
Races: Alien, Andorian, Bajoran, Benzite, Betazoid, Bolian, Ferengi, Human, Klingon, Saurian

Soldier
Increases Energy Damage and Critical Severity.
Races: Alien, Bajoran, Pakled, Saurian

Teamwork
Increases Exploit Damage.
Races: Bolian and Human

Telephathic
Improved Stealth Sight, Expose Chance, Expose Duration.
Races: Alien, Betazoid

Warrior
Increases Physical and Energy Damange and Critical Severity.
Race: Klingon
...Have you seen superior versions of the race-locked traits, or is it only the "alien" traits that come in superior form? ...Another issue is how the team traits stack... Also, you left out a couple nice traits... Creative adds...
I have at least one BO with Superior in every trait I listed, some have multiple Superiors (for instance I have a Bolian with Superior Lucky and Superior Teamwork). It's hard to say how well they all stack because there's no UI display for that info, though a couple of the abilites specifically say they don't stack (Lucky, I think.) I can say that I have one Alt with two Telepathic Betazoids and those Expose Durations last forever... If two bad guys Expose at once I can get the first, wait for CD and often still get the second. Seems to be stacking to me...

Yes, I left out some abilities. Those were just my favorites. As for Creative, it specifically says it helps with Kits, and since BOs don't actually use Kits, I've never been sure if it's useful/works for BOs, or if it's broken like Leadership (which should be a Space trait, but is listed on a BO as a Ground Trait and doesn't help in Space (or Ground for that matter)).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
The "efficient" trait doesn't appear to stack if you have both a Borg and Saurian BO on your ship, for instance.
I am 100% certain the Space trait Efficient stacks (even between BOs and Captains). My main character has 1x Amazon Borg and 2x Saurians, and I have other Captains that are Efficient and have E-BOs. The UI confirms that my Power Levels go up/down as I add/remove E-BOs. Check out my Ship Power Calculator thread for details.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-28-2011, 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatricianVetinari
Yes, I left out some abilities. Those were just my favorites. As for Creative, is specifically says it helps with Kits, and since BOs don't actually use Kits, I've never been sure if it's useful/works for BOs, or if it's broken like Leadership:
I figured that at least those abilities that are also available on kits count as "kit" abilities when trained on BOs as well. Like you said though, no way to know if that's the case or not. I thought the only distinction with Creative is that it would not boost "healing" from hypos or damage from weapons, but otherwise would boost all the other trained abilities. If it really only affects abilities attached to actual kits, then it's taking up an awful lot of wasted BO trait slots out there (and that wouldn't surprise me if it's true).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatricianVetinari
I am 100% certain the Space trait Efficient stacks (even between BOs and Captains). My main character has 1x Amazon Borg and 2x Saurians, and I have other Captains that are Efficient and have E-BOs. The UI confirms that my Power Levels go up/down as I add/remove E-BOs. Check out my Ship Power Calculator thread for details.
I must be doing something wrong then. I've got a Borg and a Saurian with efficient, and I get the same measly +1 boost to my two lowest power levels whether I have one or both of them on board. I've tried swapping them in and out with other BOs that don't have efficient, and with each other, and I've never seen more than a +1 increase in any level.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-28-2011, 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
I figured that at least those abilities that are also available on kits count as "kit" abilities when trained on BOs as well. Like you said though, no way to know if that's the case or not. I thought the only distinction with Creative is that it would not boost "healing" from hypos or damage from weapons, but otherwise would boost all the other trained abilities. If it really only affects abilities attached to actual kits, then it's taking up an awful lot of wasted BO trait slots out there (and that wouldn't surprise me if it's true).

Creative only applies to kits, so it's one of the traits that are just junk on a BOff. (Unless a dev can post contrary data for us.) There are other traits that should not be part of the BOff pool; I'm sure you can work those out for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP3CTREnyc
So this thread doesn't solve anything. Did you really need to make a full page of posts to say, "Play on normal?"

How about, "If you're fighting klingon's on advanced or higher, bring two healers with three heal abilities, carry hypos, and make sure your engineers have shield recharge. Focus your team's fire on the dahar masters, swordmasters, munitions officers, targ handlers, bat'leth/met'leth soldiers in that order."

Also, I have a problem with your view of tac officers. They are definitely not useless, especially in the late game when you can equip them with smoke grenades, target optics, suppressing fire, and focus fire. I don't give mine any melee abilities, but that's only because they don't like to back out of the enemy group afterward.
I can play ground on Advanced or Elite when I feel like it, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who still thinks there is a place for tactical BOffs on the ground.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
03-01-2011, 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureAlliance View Post
Redshirts! Redshirts! I gotta have more redshirts so they can die for me!

Dying for you is about all they're good for. Here is a power-by-power dismantling of ground tactical BOs.
Okay, I'm going to beg to differ with some of this stuff.

Quote:
Draw Fire Sucks: Any competent captain will generate enough threat to outshine this.
Draw Fire might not be great for threat generation but it also adds defense to the rest of the team. If you've built a Tactical BO for pure defense this can be a handy slot filler. I built different away teams for fun to see how they work. One of my Tactical Officers is specced purely for "security" work and this adds to other powers that debuff enemy attacks and away team defense. The duration (for me) is pretty short with an overlong recharge so I double up on it for this guy. Buying the right Captain skills would improve it.

Quote:
Leg Sweep Sucks: Sure, let's run TOWARD the superpowerful swordmasters and Borg Drones to use this melee attack! That sounds like an awesome idea!.
Leg Sweep is a great power for tactical BOs. All those annoying enemies that rush you? Watch 'em bounce if you've got a melee specialty BO (two leg sweeps/two lunges and a melee weapon). Those bosses/Lts that give you a hard time? That melee specialist is a fire-and-forget missile of destruction assuming you've got a halfway competent medic around to heal him (extra credit for you if he also buffs).

I have two melee specialists and one is usually on any away team. One's pure DPS (my Gorn "bodyguard" with his bat'leth) and another is unstoppable (hold/knockback/slow resists on my Bajoran "duellist" with her sword). Give them physical boosting armor and shields that either reflect damage or knockdown foes when the meleer is hit for added aggro holding.

They aren't tanks in the MMO sense but they will hold the attention of anyone they're beating up on and if that foe is forced into melee they might not be doing something more damaging.

In addition to melee specialists, I have a pair of generalist Security officers. They've each got Lunge, Leg Sweep, Overwatch (one has I and one has II so they'll stack), and Target Optics (II on one and III on the other). Just letting your guys run around willy-nilly can be silly (though at times it's handy as they'll create flanking opportunities for each other and you don't want your guys in a fixed position if they're going facing plasma grenades). You want to keep your team together. Group waypoint them. Find a good spot and stick 'em there.

Having these two in place with staggered Overwatches which also stack with mine (Overwatch III on my Squad Commander Kit) makes for very strong local defenses. Target Optics boosts damage noticeably as I've invested in it on my character, maxed it out in fact, so the duration comes close to matching the recharge time. Lastly, those leg sweeps and lunges matter. When a knockdown or an overwatch pulse (three of them pulsing, mind you) triggers an expose that lunge can come in handy if their rifles aren't ready to Exploit. And dual leg sweeps from the guys keep enemies that rush flat on their backs.

Quote:
Photon Grenade Sucks: Yeah, if you time it right, you can get a flank without much effort. Good when you're the tactical captain who uses it just before a sniper shot. Bad when your BOs spam it while your exploits are on cooldown.
I love Photon grenades and not just for exposes! They're ranged legsweeps. If the enemies are falling down they're not shooting at you. I've got a dedicated grenadier/heavy weapons guy (big old Andorian the size of a small mountain) with damage boosting gear and nothing but three ranks of photon grenades and Target Optics III. Things just bounce when he's in play. His heavy weapon strips shields (photons do more damage on unshielded targets), exploits and does an AOE (split stream/cone) attack. When things aren't bouncing.

Quote:
Lunge Sucks: See Leg Sweep.
This may be more situational. If you're a Tactical character who has bought up all the melee skills this will be reflected in how much damage your BOs do (recharge time for powers etc). My melee specialists who are kitted out for melee can do serious damage in close combat and ignoring shields. I'll be handling some problem on one side of the map, look over, and find an enemy officer with nearly full shields and only a sliver of health. Oh, right, I sicc'd the Gorn on him.

Quote:
Smoke Grenade Sucks: It's possible to construct a ground tactical BO in the spirit of the Operative kit by including rank 1 of this power. Once your initial ambush is used up, the bang of that BO is spent for that fight.
Smoke grenade is of marginal use for stealth but what it also does is reduce the range of an enemy's vision. So if for some reason you want to bring him in closer, Smoke will do that. Back when I used the Close Combat Kit a great deal I found smoke handy for bringing my targets in without me having to chase after them. These days I'm all about Squad Leader though so I just send out a melee officer to deal with "stand off" enemies.

It's not useless but there are better powers.

Quote:
Target Optics Sucks: The damage buff only applies to the BO using this power, leaving the rest of the away team in the dark.
If you've got the right BO with the right gear and the right weapon, and it doesn't hurt if you're a Tactical Officer that's invested in Target Optic related skills, then it's very much worthwhile. Damage ramps up considerably with higher ranking TOs but it might only be noticeable if you've already gone the additional steps and picked up damage boosting gear and weapons that offer serious Crit chance and multiplier boosts. Many of my BOs use this. One of my favorite little games is to see how much damage my Breen sniper has managed to do with his Sniper Shot in any given encounter (Yes, the Breen has unrelated issues but he still gets a shot off now and then). He's gone well over 2k before. But it's not a regular thing.

Quote:
Overwatch Sucks: Anyone making a minimal effort to get flanking bonuses will probably step outside the AoE. Your BOs will always try to get flanking bonuses (unless waypointed).
Hello? Of course you're waypointing your BOs. Group waypointing them. The only time you don't is when an enemy has Plasma grenades or you're sending a melee officer out to kick some boss/lt. tail. Overwatch stacks at different levels. So if you have an officer with I and another officer with II and yourself with III, well, holy bounding overwatch, batman. Suddenly your little group is quite tough. At least it works well for me. Tactical Officer, lots of points spent on ground combat skills. But I'd assume it might work for anyone to a lesser extent.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
03-03-2011, 07:50 PM
Crap! I just read this article and I realized what an idiot I have been! I actually equipped all my Bridge Officers with Phaser Full Auto Assault Rifles! I do admit that watching my Captain and his 4 Bridge Officers pepper the enemy with tons of phaser bolts is cool though. =D

Now I have to spend Energy Credits to get them all Sniper Rifles instead.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
03-03-2011, 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoHunterSG View Post
Now I have to spend Energy Credits to get them all Sniper Rifles instead.
You can farm four green Mk XIs pretty quick by crafting actually. Purples are a whole other issue, but that's just a luxury for BOs, I generally make them only for my Captain. Sniper rifles are a great option at any level, but I'm also trying my 4x sci crew out with four of the Klingon Disruptor Pistol Mk XI. That one is easy to get just by replaying the last mission in the Devidian chain a few times. It has a nice added knockback for a Compression Bolt weapon, and doesn't look like a rusty piece of junk like the regular disruptor pistols. They're lower DPS than the rifles, but the exploit attack cycles every 6 seconds instead of 9. I haven't played enough with them yet to see which set I like better, but STOked highly recommends both the Compression Bolt special and disruptors generally in their review of ground weapons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
03-03-2011, 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OddjobXL View Post
Buying the right Captain skills would improve it.
I'm curious about this, because as I understood it the only Captain skills that actually boost any BO abilities on the ground are the Tac/Eng/Sci "Team Leader" skills; which at least claim to raise the base (tier 1) ground skills of BOs in the same class as your Captain. I thought that space and ground were opposite in this way: in space, your captain skills determine the "strength" of each BO power that they support, and BO skill points just reduce the cool down timer; but on the ground it's solely invest BO skill points that boost the strength of BO abilities, and Captain skills are irrelevant. (I know that you can pick BO ground ablities in the skill window and it highlights Captain skills, making it seem that they're related; but I am also sure I've read somewhere that they don't in fact do anything for your BOs).

I've also got a lot of points in ground skills, like 7-9 points in each of two skills at each tier; but they're all focused on my own kits and abilities (if I even tried to boost my ground Tac officer abilities, I'd be putting points into everything). If what you're saying is true, then that would mean I should get a lot more "bang" out of training my Captain and tac BOs in all the same abilities, to make the most of my Captain points spent.
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