Lt. Commander
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# 1 Cryptic, please balance PvP
02-25-2011, 08:48 PM
Cryptic its time for a Major PvP Balance Pass.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 2
02-25-2011, 08:53 PM
I agree that there are too many NPCs. Photonic Fleet is stupid and should be redone to be a distraction. Instead of it just spawning other ships to help you attack it should be like... Shadow Clone Jitsu! :p It spawns and mixes you up with copies of yourself and other ships. I don't think it should have any offensive capabilities.


We're summoning too many ships too. With the Reman fighters it's just that much worse since EVERYONE can do it now. For non-carriers it should be much more rare than it is.
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# 3
02-25-2011, 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
Shadow Clone Jitsu! :p
Nice reference
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 4
02-25-2011, 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
I agree that there are too many NPCs. Photonic Fleet is stupid and should be redone to be a distraction. Instead of it just spawning other ships to help you attack it should be like... Shadow Clone Jitsu! :p It spawns and mixes you up with copies of yourself and other ships. I don't think it should have any offensive capabilities.


We're summoning too many ships too. With the Reman fighters it's just that much worse since EVERYONE can do it now. For non-carriers it should be much more rare than it is.
Someone's a Naruto fan.

Yes, I would like Photonic Fleet to have limits. When you have 3 or 4 Science Captains using it at the same time, it becomes very annoying. They may be weak HP wise, but as they say 1 ant isn't going to kill you, but when you get 1000 of them, they are deadly.


Come to think about it, I hope they do something about Carrier Frigates. The Vo'Quv should have a population limit with the BoPs. Those things hurt and seeing 8 on you is a pain. Also would like to see Kar'fi Frigate HPs get reduced a bit. 30k is rather out there for NPCs.




P.S. Sorry Cryptic for the new rant. But this has to be addressed. It needs to be fixed.
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# 5
02-25-2011, 09:47 PM
As much as this looks like a complete trollbait of a post, I'll bite, just because a lot of the points are just plainly wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
NPC Spam: So many NPCs out there now, it actually lags many of us. Mines, fighters, Photonic Fleet, and Fleet support.

In all honesty, the Scorpion Fighters should not at all be allowed in PvP, and the Orion Interceptors have an unfair advantage in disabling people's engines. So these abilities should be disabled in PVP. Especially the Fleet Support, given how Federation players have a much greater chance to summon Dreadnaughts than Klingon players.
I've Dared say I've done my fair share of PvP, and not once has it become game-changing that Scorpion Fighters, Orion fighters, Photonic Fleet, or Fleet support have shifted the blance drastically enough to be called OP. If someone pops a Fleet Support they'd have to be below 50% hull, by then they're definately pulling out all the stops to survive.

Just a side comment: I've never had Fleet Support drop anything heavier than a frigate for me, and for many others I PvP with constantly, so your talk of Feds dropping dreadnoughts just sounds like a load of bull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Sci Spam: Scrambling, Gravity Wells, and more going off on top of one another that it's really gotten stupid and really making this less Star Trek.

Perhaps this could be solved with Abilities having a Power Consumption limit, like weapon power. That way abilities cannot be used one another annother. After all, in Star Trek doing things like making a Gravity Well surely takes alot of power to do.
Take the Science powers away and you've got an easy target who cant DPS nor tank. Yes please, take away the defining factor that made Science ships, science ships.

Also, you should have seen Gravity Well last week, before they corrected the overnerf. It was laughable. People just needed to drop an Evasive on its own to get away, when before the changes, it required Evasive, a battery, and actual work to get out of one, as it should be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Healing Spam: Originally intended to get players to survive longer and encourage teamwork, but instead it only benefited PvP fleets, while alienating PuGs and newcomers to the point they do not have a chance. Whom has the better heals is the winner.

Healing needs to be rethought. Either have healing unstackable or have it's effect reduced to a managable level, where nobody has immunity. There are Intrepid Captains who greatly benefit from heal stacking that they are invulnerable in 2 on 1 situations.
You're facing a coordinated group of people vs a random PuG. Its pretty obvious who will win.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Klingons "Overpowered": While they are more skilled in PVP, skills aside, Klingon ships are far superior offensively with cloak and Dual Cannons that they can easily overwhelm Federation players, and the only way they can win is if they use somekind of teamwork. Or "zerg" in Capture and Hold.

Federation players need better shields to offset this (without the dependance on constant shield buffs).
Considering the more combative bent of Klingons in general, I'm not surprised. Since the start of STO, Klinks have been the "PvP" faction, which has attracted a lot of people intially thinking it means it'll be easy pickings of fed ships. Now, only the dedicated, and extremely skilled Klingons PvP constantly, oftentimes already knowing who they're fighting with, and against, because of the many, many, many hours of PvPing.

Again, see my previous argument about a coordinated group vs a PuG.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
The BoP: In the right hands, the BoP is a powerful fighter than can actually tank other escorts. It's probably the best ship in STO to PvP in.

Engineering and Science abilities should be reduced. Especially now the Klingons have actual science ships.
the BoP is a touch OP, admittedly, but its also quite easy to blow up. The problem herein is that those who fly one are dedicated PvP players who know how to get the best out of their BoP.

Again, its not the ship, its the players. See above and above that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
The Intrepid: Along with the ability to have a Free RSP, the Intrepid is a very powerful healing ship that I actually know many players who have pure healing builds that make this ship very formidable, more so than Lunas and DSSVs. (Few people actually PVP in those ships anyhow, due to their lack of abilitieS).

Not sure if things would be better if Healing abilities were reviewed, but currently something that should not be overlooked.
Having tried the Intrepid for 3 solid days of PvP after its Ablative Armor changes, I can say its improved from its near-useless power, to something you can rely when the going gets tough, which by that point, it'll only provide you some time to get away, or die when it cuts off.

So what is essentially a very, very, very minor buff, and you call it more powerful than Lunas or DSSVs? I can do far better in my RSV than in a LRSV-fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
The Defiant: Probably the second most deadliest ship in STO. I can't put my finger on it, but this thing can easily defeat anyone in seconds, and there are far too many times players in this ship can stand still and take a full Escort barrage of 4 DHCs and not have any damage to it's shields.

People claim there is a way to bug the defiant by logging out at a certain time. So this should be looked at carefully. Especially with the ability to do super crits with Beam Overload 3, which can 1 shot Negh'vars (this supposed to have nerfed months ago, so perhaps the bug has returned).
The Defiant is essentially a BoP without the universal BOff slots. You were complaining about BoP's being OP, right?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Hybrids: Escorts with Cannon and Beam Builds are extremely dangerous and unfair with the ability to disable and rapid fire at the same time. So suggest global cooldown of beam and cannon abilities.
Global cooldowns on tactical powers to cut back what is essentially the escort's only trick in the book. Yes, please nerf escorts so it'll be Star Cruisers Online again as it was pre-Season 2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Cap and Hold: We need to fix the bugs with the Cap points, which can end up stuck and not change sides. Sometimes this benefits the Federation or Blue teams where they cannot switch sides.
This is the only point I'll agree with. C&H zones and other irregularities are in need of a pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Cryptic, please change PvP so it can fun once again and not chase away people because they constantly lose. Especially to PvP fleets.
Again, see, you're facing a coordinated group of people who, in most cases, know what they're doing against a group of disorganized players, of varying skill levels.

Who's going to win in this circumstance? It'll be the ones working together, obviously.

So what, you want to nerf teamwork?
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 6
02-26-2011, 12:02 AM
i stopped reading at kdf ships op, are you being serious you have so many choices on ships with so many varients on extras that made us look like the bullied kids who get left overs an cast offs. its what you do with the tools your given that make the difference not the tool you have at hand at that set time.

ow an ps, we have 'A' science ship at top lvl, thats it.
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# 7
02-26-2011, 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh1ngara
i stopped reading at kdf ships op, are you being serious you have so many choices on ships with so many varients on extras that made us look like the bullied kids who get left overs an cast offs. its what you do with the tools your given that make the difference not the tool you have at hand at that set time.
Yes, I'm serious. It's insanely easy to PvP as a Klingon. I can tank 3 Federation ships in my BoP, but I can't do the same in any of my Federation ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KazumaKat
I've Dared say I've done my fair share of PvP, and not once has it become game-changing that Scorpion Fighters, Orion fighters, Photonic Fleet, or Fleet support have shifted the blance drastically enough to be called OP. If someone pops a Fleet Support they'd have to be below 50% hull, by then they're definately pulling out all the stops to survive.

Just a side comment: I've never had Fleet Support drop anything heavier than a frigate for me, and for many others I PvP with constantly, so your talk of Feds dropping dreadnoughts just sounds like a load of bull.
Feel free to visit the PvP forum, there are plenty of others who are tired of NPC Spam as well. And many of them are regarded as the best.


Quote:
Take the Science powers away and you've got an easy target who cant DPS nor tank. Yes please, take away the defining factor that made Science ships, science ships.

Also, you should have seen Gravity Well last week, before they corrected the overnerf. It was laughable. People just needed to drop an Evasive on its own to get away, when before the changes, it required Evasive, a battery, and actual work to get out of one, as it should be.
I NEVER suggested for Cryptic to take science powers away. Just to have it that it can't be spammed.

Also, Gravity Well was adjusted for NPCs, not players.

Quote:
You're facing a coordinated group of people vs a random PuG. Its pretty obvious who will win.
No kidding, and how many of those people you think is going to stay around when they lose all the time?

If you havn't noticed, the PvP population is quite the shadow of it's former self.

Quote:
Considering the more combative bent of Klingons in general, I'm not surprised. Since the start of STO, Klinks have been the "PvP" faction, which has attracted a lot of people intially thinking it means it'll be easy pickings of fed ships. Now, only the dedicated, and extremely skilled Klingons PvP constantly, oftentimes already knowing who they're fighting with, and against, because of the many, many, many hours of PvPing.

Again, see my previous argument about a coordinated group vs a PuG.
That era is long gone. The majority of Klingon players that leveled up solely by PvP are gone. The only person from Sto'Vo'Kor you see anymore is a Goldfarmer, and you don't see the likes of Glory or Death anymore. Pretty much Lore is pretty much the only remaining old school Klingon PvP fleet left.

Quote:
the BoP is a touch OP, admittedly, but its also quite easy to blow up. The problem herein is that those who fly one are dedicated PvP players who know how to get the best out of their BoP.

Again, its not the ship, its the players. See above and above that.
Like I said, it may be fragile, but it's also ridiculously easy to tank in.

Quote:
Having tried the Intrepid for 3 solid days of PvP after its Ablative Armor changes, I can say its improved from its near-useless power, to something you can rely when the going gets tough, which by that point, it'll only provide you some time to get away, or die when it cuts off.

So what is essentially a very, very, very minor buff, and you call it more powerful than Lunas or DSSVs? I can do far better in my RSV than in a LRSV-fit.
Its rare to see any Intrepid Captain run when they got Ablative up. They throw on Hazzard Emitters and get back to full health before the armor drops.

Quote:
The Defiant is essentially a BoP without the universal BOff slots. You were complaining about BoP's being OP, right?
Ironic considering you just admitted the BoP was "a touch OP".

Quote:
Global cooldowns on tactical powers to cut back what is essentially the escort's only trick in the book. Yes, please nerf escorts so it'll be Star Cruisers Online again as it was pre-Season 2.
Yes, let's keep the ability for players to drop players shields and quickly finish them off with Rapid Fire 3.

[QUOTE
Again, see, you're facing a coordinated group of people who, in most cases, know what they're doing against a group of disorganized players, of varying skill levels.

Who's going to win in this circumstance? It'll be the ones working together, obviously.

So what, you want to nerf teamwork?[/quote]

It's been what 5 months since Cryptic enhanced team heals, and since then the majority of Federation player have yet to use them. Yes, teamwork buffs should be nerfed.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-26-2011, 12:26 AM
I want to focus on the stuff where I have the most experience on (well at least as much as you can have as a casual Sci PuG-PvP player in a heal/shield drain DSSV )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
NPC Spam: So many NPCs out there now, it actually lags many of us. Mines, fighters, Photonic Fleet, and Fleet support.

In all honesty, the Scorpion Fighters should not at all be allowed in PvP, and the Orion Interceptors have an unfair advantage in disabling people's engines. So these abilities should be disabled in PVP. Especially the Fleet Support, given how Federation players have a much greater chance to summon Dreadnaughts than Klingon players.
I never experienced lag because of too much NPCs so I can't argue about it. And while I personally don't like nor use the Scorpions you can't take away ship or captain specific abilities. No matter what you take away you will weaken the ship/profession and give them an unfair disadvantage in PvP. Also they aren't OP. Fleet support never saved my life. Scorpions I ignore most of the time and Interceptors only get my attention if they drain my engine power and even then their mothership is still a bigger danger to me.

But what we do need is some way to ignore all the NPCs for manual targeting.


Quote:
Sci Spam: Scrambling, Gravity Wells, and more going off on top of one another that it's really gotten stupid and really making this less Star Trek.

Perhaps this could be solved with Abilities having a Power Consumption limit, like weapon power. That way abilities cannot be used one another annother. After all, in Star Trek doing things like making a Gravity Well surely takes alot of power to do.
I don't like the idea of a "mana bar" and I don't think it would change much. Especially since it would weaken them even more in PvE. A single sci-power has never been the problem (at least for me) and as long as this doesn't change sci-ships have to be able to use multiple types at the same time. As soon as you have 2+ sci ships which work together the "mana bar" would have no effect at all.


Quote:
Healing Spam: Originally intended to get players to survive longer and encourage teamwork, but instead it only benefited PvP fleets, while alienating PuGs and newcomers to the point they do not have a chance. Whom has the better heals is the winner.

Healing needs to be rethought. Either have healing unstackable or have it's effect reduced to a managable level, where nobody has immunity. There are Intrepid Captains who greatly benefit from heal stacking that they are invulnerable in 2 on 1 situations.
While I agree healing has to be changed to more HoT (specially hull) no matter what you do premades will always be better. While I have been often enough on the receiving end fighting against a premade (damn you TSI damn you *shakes fist* ) I don't want to play a game where a PuG can beat a good premade. It would just be wrong. Bad premades are a different story...


Quote:
Originally Posted by KazumaKat
[...]

Just a side comment: I've never had Fleet Support drop anything heavier than a frigate for me, and for many others I PvP with constantly, so your talk of Feds dropping dreadnoughts just sounds like a load of bull.

[...]
While I agree with most of thee other stuff you said I have to disagree on this one. Yes most of the time you get a frigate which isn't very helpful but I also had Star Cruises coming to may aid and yes once a Gal-X some time ago. So it is (or was in case they changed it) possible to get a dreadnought.
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# 9
02-26-2011, 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Yes, I'm serious. It's insanely easy to PvP as a Klingon. I can tank 3 Federation ships in my BoP, but I can't do the same in any of my Federation ships.

right now i know your defo talkin out your ####, ive seen kdf go pop in no time against a fed an i seen feds go pop in no time against a kdf, at the same time ive feds who seem indestructable an kdf who seem indestructable but nothing is unkillable an if as u say kdf can tank 3 feds purly because there kdf im pritty sure cryptic might have picked up on it already an done something about it.

but hey why not tell cryptic to strip nearly all fed pve content an get feds to lvl through pvp at the same rate as kdf an feds might have more better pvpers who u might get grouped with but i know for a fact there are some major demigod fed pvpers out there who do more then fine against us kdf.
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Posts: 120
# 10
02-26-2011, 12:33 AM
^ They know, but they aren't saying anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampir888 View Post
While I agree healing has to be changed to more HoT (specially hull) no matter what you do premades will always be better. While I have been often enough on the receiving end fighting against a premade (damn you TSI damn you *shakes fist* ) I don't want to play a game where a PuG can beat a good premade. It would just be wrong. Bad premades are a different story... .
I agree, I don't want an experienced premade being defeated by a PuG. But it would be nice if they can be given more of a chance to live than ending a match with 0 kills. Or getting killed in less than 3 seconds.


Cryptic needs to make STO more "Star Trek" and less "Star Wars".
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