Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-26-2011, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Actually TERA while it initially seems so isn't that egregious an example to use, the women there are powerful warriors yet are reduced to "sexual things", similarly revealing clothing in games doesn't do that for men quite so much, they become "sexual warriors", their sexuality a complement to their power not an undermining of it(unless they look pretty camp, then they become targets of humour).
It took me a while to work out what you were saying here, but it is absolutely a valid point - albeit a little deeper into the subject than I was really wanting to go here. It's /very very/ easy given the current outfits to create a female Starfleet officer that is undermined by her choice in clothing... but it's a very mix and match system - I rather think the new open jacket thing - matched with a pair of trousers - falls into the 'sexy but not slutty' area of things that maintains a sexual quality without reducing a female character to a mere sexy picture, Your Mileage May Seriously Vary.

But you're absolutely right that the double standard will always exist and it is far, far easier for women to stray into that area than it is for men.

I don't think, however, that undermines my original point too terribly much, but I do appreciate the input.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-26-2011, 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien_de_jour

Since this is a Star Trek game, obviously Cryptic's 1st concern is going to be getting what's on the show in the game. Unfortunately for your point, the men of Trek tend to stay well covered with the exceptions of Krik's battle damaged tunic and the klingons. Klingons in game (both sexes) should have the option to go without a shirt below their vests and body armor. This happened in cannon. For example see these pics of Cpt Klaa and his 1st mate here and here.
I have to ammend this portion of your argument. First Contact is nothing if not a slow inexorable Picard strip tease. He starts in full uniform, by the time he's heading to engineering to lose Data he's got the jacket off and a vest in its place. When he's "drawing the line" in the observation lounge he's down to an unzipped shirt and when he finally makes his way into Engineering and is on the assimilation table he's down to a tank top. So at least there is more recent evidence of a male captain with more revealing options.

Still, if nothing else, it looks ridiculous to have female officers on your ship unzipped with no undershirts while the males have long underwear on. Give femlaes the undershirt and males the no undershirt option, more variety is rarely a bad thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-26-2011, 07:30 PM
Quote:
I have to ammend this portion of your argument. First Contact is nothing if not a slow inexorable Picard strip tease. He starts in full uniform, by the time he's heading to engineering to lose Data he's got the jacket off and a vest in its place. When he's "drawing the line" in the observation lounge he's down to an unzipped shirt and when he finally makes his way into Engineering and is on the assimilation table he's down to a tank top.
Mmmmm. Now that's what /I'm/ talkin' about. Patrick Stewarty goodness. Also, we some Pat-butt in the FOUR LIGHTS! episode. Perhaps not presented very sexily, but I'll take what I can get.

Also, I did mention Ricardo Montalban's pecs! /And/ he was 50 at the time!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-26-2011, 07:35 PM
I find this to be interestingly representative on the American view on sexuality.

America as a country is more open to violence than sexual things.

Case in point Fallout 3:

Gratuitous violence, alcohol drinking, and drug taking. But disrobe a person and they wear unbelievable large amounts of underwear,

I absolutely do not support gratuitous nudity, but quite frankly, I see worse stuff on middle schoolers than the open jacket females in game.

By the way, my fav Star Trek reviewer SF Debris used "He Who is without Sin" to highlight this.
It is quite interesting. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C37B1XGR-o"]SFdebris /URL]

On the other hand there are countries that are really accepting of sexuality. I mean in Italy, on public TV, nudity is allowed.

I would like to mention I am an American. Born and raised in Texas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-26-2011, 07:47 PM
I don't quite agree with alot that this thread has had to say about depictions of women and inferring the mindset of Cryptic or male players. But there is one thing that drives me nuts. It's a uniform. It should probably be- I don't know maybe uniform? If males have undershirts so should females. IMHO it looks better with. I realize that Cryptic is trying to give us alot of customization options, and I also realize that Starfleet is not a military organization. So uniforms aren't rigidly adhered to, or as limited, as say the Army Class A service uniform. But it's still supposed to be a professional organization. Giving the Captain discretion over which uniform will be worn by him (or her) and their officers does not mean wearing items half way, unzipped showing your chest, etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-26-2011, 07:59 PM
Actually my biggest prob with the pack is that

A) The TNG set doesn't feature the coat

B) The DS9/VOY and TNG Film versions feature the TNG undershirt even though they were never used in that combo. When it would have been more beneficial to just give us the real undershirt and the Captain's vest.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-27-2011, 12:33 PM
I'd really like too see the open jackets updated so that the women are wearing the undershirt as well. I don't care to have my bridge officers looking too provocative.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 38
02-27-2011, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
Actually my biggest prob with the pack is that

A) The TNG set doesn't feature the coat

B) The DS9/VOY and TNG Film versions feature the TNG undershirt even though they were never used in that combo. When it would have been more beneficial to just give us the real undershirt and the Captain's vest.
Oddly, the undershirt mismatch is my first and largest complaint with the open jacket pack. Showing that truly war are geeks. LOL
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-27-2011, 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien_de_jour
Oddly, the undershirt mismatch is my first and largest complaint with the open jacket pack. Showing that truly war are geeks. LOL
Mine two. And there is still no TNG Captain's Variant or TNG Film Captain's Variant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-28-2011, 07:35 AM
I noticed the difference between male and female open uniform and that was about. It looks like Cryptic did everything right by the PC gamer cover and the poll so we can't complain too much about that and also if it's the level of nudity that's bothering us then we should get on the case of the orions while we're at it.

I like the female open one (oh come on I'm a mature guy but that don't mean I can't find certain things appealing) but somehow I don't see myself looking that good with a vestless male toon it just wouldn't look right.

Maybe it's my perception of males being shirt wearing people with a narrow variety of 'covered' style' and females can do more or less revealing with a larger varity of dresswear. To put it another way what would people find more appropriate (not appealing) a scantly clad male or female? It just seems to be one of things females carry better than men.

Still this is clearly my opinion and Cryptic should give both genders the same variants. Also I'd like to think thisi s the 25th Century in STO and fashion can be quite different and although some things won't change (much) some things can cahgne or be created. If they do open uniforms for men when I get around to buying the item in the next available sale I'll probably go vest AND vestless open uniforms for female but only vest for male.
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