Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
03-03-2011, 04:25 PM
Like in EVE?

IMO, mining (if implemented) will still probably cost you more, in hours of grinding, than it would take to just earn the money to buy it outright. Are you not able to earn money easily? (If so, how do you pay for your subscription?) Do you value your time so little? Or are you just morally opposed to paying real money for game items if you can at all help it?

In one hour at my day job, I make enough to pay for a month's subscription, or (roughly) 1000 store points. Now if there's something in the store I want, I can either use some of the money I've earned to pay for my fun, or turn my fun time into another job that pays less per hour. What do you think is the better deal?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
03-03-2011, 04:35 PM
This entire argument is nullified because the Ships are available ingame. Just because you do not agree with the pricing does not mean ships should not be offered for instant purchase.

500 emblems is fair, imo, as it at least ensures Cryptic the revenue of one month's subscription of grinding from the player based on a worse case scenario of an inactive account.

I am sorry you feel tired of it, but I for one will buy things I want. Either with cash or time. Given I am continually offered the choice to buy with cash or time I can make an informed decision that suits my needs.

p.s. Just because you feel playing for one hour a day for 33 days is unfair is further proof to me that your perspective on this matter is more jaded towards your view that the price is unfair versus the potential impact of having these ships on the cstore.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
03-03-2011, 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HF_Mudd
Like in EVE?

IMO, mining (if implemented) will still probably cost you more, in hours of grinding, than it would take to just earn the money to buy it outright. Are you not able to earn money easily? (If so, how do you pay for your subscription?) Do you value your time so little? Or are you just morally opposed to paying real money for game items if you can at all help it?
A hybrid of the two games is what I was going for. More so towards burning Sea if you've played it. I know that there are people that like economy grinding, just like some like diplomacy-type missions. Having variety helps. I can be an engineer that designs engines and you're a tactical that works on weapon systems. You need my engines to build a ship, I need your weapon systems. There, you have a basic economy. Mining is just an option, I would hope it never becomes exactly like EVE.


I value my time and my money very much. I've played other games casually and I get a pretty good sense that I get a lot of game for my time played. That's why I play casually. I am also a fan of Trek and STO. Since launch I was hoping to get a chance to fly ships like the Prometheus from the show and use their abilities. I'm paying a subscription, I don't think it's fair that every new ship asset is so expensive to get.

'Shade just posted on the MVAM thread that they think their time is worth the emblems/Atari point they charge. I have a job too, I can see that. So, does the development team work by commission? I am confused at this. Suppose they were not working on the Prometheus MVAM. What would the be working on? It seems to me like they would be coming to work everyday and work the (I'm sure) 60 hours a week. If they feel like they MUST charge for what they will be doing anyway, then perhaps STO is doing as well as they're trying to say it is subscription-wise.

I work 40 hours a week. When I'm given a task and work extra hard on it to get it done I can't go to my boss and ask for an extra bonus. I get paid my 40 hours and that's it.

If STO the game isn't making enough money and you need my extra $15 for a ship, TELL ME. Cryptic is one of the most open development team I have seen and I will understand. But hiding that need behind promotions and development lingo just doesn't feel quite right.

I have bought already several items from the C-Store, including ships. I am not against it entirely. But as a casual player, I'm not going to enjoy the new ship art assets as much if emblems is my only option. Stahl has posted several times that he has separate teams. The costuming guys can continue making uniforms and such and they can continue to make additional revenue from that.

What about the graphic fixes, what about ships for the KDF. I would love to see that effort that the development team is putting out be siphoned towards that. If that means we may not get C-Store ships for a while, fine. But it will be development effort that we will see without having to pay or grind extra
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
03-03-2011, 04:57 PM
I agree with the OP to an extent.

The emblem grind pretty much is an attempt to drive someone to frustration so that they buy the C-store ship.

I dont know much about the MVA console. Tested it on tribble. It seems it should be a craftable object along with C-Store. Or craftable after a mission. Which would be awesome. Maybe the C-store now and a mission to give you the ability to craft it later? That would be pretty fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
03-03-2011, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desdecardo View Post
I agree with the OP to an extent.

The emblem grind pretty much is an attempt to drive someone to frustration so that they buy the C-store ship.

I dont know much about the MVA console. Tested it on tribble. It seems it should be a craftable object along with C-Store. Or craftable after a mission. Which would be awesome. Maybe the C-store now and a mission to give you the ability to craft it later? That would be pretty fun.
That's what I'm hoping for. Options. It's suppose to be that way for the Delta Flyer, but I have yet to see any more info on it. I can't wait for it. I was hoping that it would be a catalyst for better options rather than do the same missions 67 times over several weeks. It's one of the reasons Klingon players are upset
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
03-03-2011, 06:03 PM
I couldn't agree more. I've never been a die-hard opponent of the C-store - things like the melee weapons pack are /exactly/ what it should be used for - purely cosmetic, flashy versions of items available in-game easily via other means.

But it seems with the MVAM debacle like more and more 'game' is going on there - and there's no two ways about it, new ship classes are very much a core part of the game. One of the primary 'hooks' while levelling is the feeling of upgrading to a new ship... something we're now being asked to pay for.

A two-month plus grind for a single item /is not reasonable/, and neither are the prices being charged.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
03-03-2011, 07:42 PM
Btran VA dailies - 4 emblems Non VA dailies - 4 marks of exploration
Defri 3 missions daily - 5 emblems
The daily fleet action - 3 emblems
The daily pvp - 3 emblems
Sha mar distress call - 1 emblem -eta eridani
Allheana distress call - 1 emblem - eta eridani
Sattelite repair - 1 emblem -eta eridani


18 emblems per day or 22 marks of exploration and i think i may have missed 1, though it may be a grind it wont take forever to get them if you can play 5 days a week it will take about a month or less if you repeat the btran daily for 1 emblem per time. I agree the C store is frusterating for some people and they cant get on 5 or more days a week but at least there is an obtainable option other than coughing up the cash alot of games dont have the option to get things ingame.

Also there are usually sales every couple of months, alot of people impulse buy and then regret it my self included I have ships i never use at least if your working your way up to it collecting emblems you can ask a few other players who did getit (they are usually pretty honest) how good it actually is and you will see it in combat if you pvp .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
03-03-2011, 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thun712 View Post
Thanks for the opinion.

My point is about the functional items that end up on the C-Store and are way too overpriced in-game. I don't think it is fair grind. And the C-Store alternative seems like too much of a cash grab.
The grind isnt fair, 500 emblems each is an insane amount and for the average player it would take well over a month of playing every single day for at least 1-2 hours or something. Its ridiculous, im sick of it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
03-04-2011, 12:10 AM
Since I haven't actually bought anything from the store, I wasn't aware they ran like $15 a pop. Two ships for the cost of an entire single-player game's expansion pack? That's absurd. I thought the stuff was like $2.

And grinding for a month straight for something that's more or less a cosmetic customization option is pretty nuts too, particularly in a game that has its character customization routinely touted as a major feature.

I can understand things that actively break with the setting of the game being grind/C-store just to keep the quantity of them down (i.e. TOS Connie/NX), but things that fit in, especially ships, have no reason to fall under such restrictions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
03-04-2011, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotD
Since I haven't actually bought anything from the store, I wasn't aware they ran like $15 a pop. Two ships for the cost of an entire single-player game's expansion pack? That's absurd. I thought the stuff was like $2.

And grinding for a month straight for something that's more or less a cosmetic customization option is pretty nuts too, particularly in a game that has its character customization routinely touted as a major feature.

I can understand things that actively break with the setting of the game being grind/C-store just to keep the quantity of them down (i.e. TOS Connie/NX), but things that fit in, especially ships, have no reason to fall under such restrictions.
What many fail to understand is that these are low volume sale items. As such to compare against high volume sale items such as expansion packs or monthly subscriptions is a mistake. The only way they can justify being added for the relative few who have a strong desire to have them is by pricing them accordingly. As your post points out, it isn't really the price that's a factor in who buys them. Or put another way, you wouldn't have purchased a ship from the C-Store if they were only $2 either because that's what you thought they sold for and didn't try to buy one.

Items which are only desired by a relatively small number and aren't going to be desired by a larger number even at significantly lower price, must either be priced high enough to justify adding them for the small number or they just shouldn't be added. The C-Store provides this option for things that a few want that they otherwise couldn't have. And to make it even better Cryptic has made these items available for free through in game means for those who highly desire them but just can't afford to pay for them.
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