Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
03-04-2011, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thun712 View Post
Sure, you can get 15 emblems in a day, but you'd have to play for about an hour and a half every day for over a month. That is NOT casual gaming. Casual gaming is maybe 4 days a week. At a casual level, I could get maybe the ten per day, but that pushes me into the 2~3 months to get any of the ships.
You still do not get it. If - for example - it takes a total of 40 hours to earn enough emblems to buy a ship, it will take 40 hours, regardless of how often you play. It just seems like it takes longer for the casual gamer because those 40 hours are spread out over a longer period of time.

If player A plays 20 hours a day, they earn the ship in 2 days.
If player B plays 8 hours a day, they earn the ship in 5 days.
If player C plays 1 hour a week, it will take nearly a year to get the ship.

Making something that is easy for Player C makes that same item trivial to A or B.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
03-04-2011, 09:21 AM
Its not that hard or over the top its only 500 , If you got it for free in a week you would post omg we need more ships I am bored. and if you don't want to grind then buy it nuff said.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
03-04-2011, 09:59 AM
A significant number of players have voiced their frustration about the length of the grind to obtain any of these in-game. Just as many have voiced their disappointment over every single new ship art asset hitting the C-Store.

Quote:
The C-Store provides this option for things that a few want that they otherwise couldn't have.
It's actually more like things that many want. And I'm not sure about the "couldn't have" part, since Devs like CaptnLogan will need something to do, so we would have gotten them eventually. The Devs have made it clear that they want to add as many of the ships from the Series as they can. Are they going to charge us for all of them? That's crazy.

So, the only way for us to get any of the new ships we like from the series is to pay for them or grind them? It doesn't seem fair, at least not at the price they are offered. I feel that they should budget those assets from our subscriptions. Although Frankly, I'd rather have more game content. I'm assuming a huge part of their time goes into the Weekly Series... I'd rather see new ships be introduced in those rather than being sold to us. We are getting Weekly series now every couple of months, so in the development downtime where they don't need the 3D artists for the Season Update, work on a few ships and introduce them as part of the Series rewards, without forcing us to a frustrating grind.

Quote:
You still do not get it. If - for example - it takes a total of 40 hours to earn enough emblems to buy a ship, it will take 40 hours, regardless of how often you play
True, but we can't keep up with the rate at which they're releasing the ships. By the time I've saved for one there is already two out. It's a direct ploy to frustrate folks into buying them, I really think that is unfair. They come up with flashy new ships that they know people want and after showing it and teasing about it, they're just on the Store with the hefty price tag.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
03-04-2011, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thun712 View Post
A significant number of players have voiced their frustration about the length of the grind to obtain any of these in-game. Just as many have voiced their disappointment over every single new ship art asset hitting the C-Store.


It's actually more like things that many want. And I'm not sure about the "couldn't have" part, since Devs like CaptnLogan will need something to do, so we would have gotten them eventually. The Devs have made it clear that they want to add as many of the ships from the Series as they can. Are they going to charge us for all of them? That's crazy.

So, the only way for us to get any of the new ships we like from the series is to pay for them or grind them? It doesn't seem fair, at least not at the price they are offered. I feel that they should budget those assets from our subscriptions. Although Frankly, I'd rather have more game content. I'm assuming a huge part of their time goes into the Weekly Series... I'd rather see new ships be introduced in those rather than being sold to us. We are getting Weekly series now every couple of months, so in the development downtime where they don't need the 3D artists for the Season Update, work on a few ships and introduce them as part of the Series rewards, without forcing us to a frustrating grind.


...
There is also probably a very large time component to this. It is too early to tell for sure since the new ships have released after the last major rank/tier advance; but I would expect that over time existing C-Store/emblem ships would be added to the game for free. Afterall there won't be a small market for these Tier 5 ships when we're at Tier 6 max level, there will be a nearly nonexistent market.

Of course the other alternative is they'll just drop new access to these ships in their current form and offer to sell new versions of the same at Tier 6. But, for some reason I don't think that would go over well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
03-04-2011, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thun712 View Post
True, but we can't keep up with the rate at which they're releasing the ships. By the time I've saved for one there is already two out. It's a direct ploy to frustrate folks into buying them, I really think that is unfair. They come up with flashy new ships that they know people want and after showing it and teasing about it, they're just on the Store with the hefty price tag.
"Unfair" is subjective though and depends on the individual. You may feel it unfair and too much to keep up with. Others will find it reasonable so long as they do not have to shell out real cash for it.

I am not saying you are wrong in your opinion and I can empathize with you. I just disagree that Cryptic should not have a C-Store.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
03-04-2011, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspired View Post
What many fail to understand is that these are low volume sale items. As such to compare against high volume sale items such as expansion packs or monthly subscriptions is a mistake. The only way they can justify being added for the relative few who have a strong desire to have them is by pricing them accordingly. As your post points out, it isn't really the price that's a factor in who buys them. Or put another way, you wouldn't have purchased a ship from the C-Store if they were only $2 either because that's what you thought they sold for and didn't try to buy one.

Items which are only desired by a relatively small number and aren't going to be desired by a larger number even at significantly lower price, must either be priced high enough to justify adding them for the small number or they just shouldn't be added. The C-Store provides this option for things that a few want that they otherwise couldn't have. And to make it even better Cryptic has made these items available for free through in game means for those who highly desire them but just can't afford to pay for them.
I do not consider volume to be a factor here. This is a subscription game where new content such as this is developed routinely either way. That is just part of the deal. Most of this stuff is pretty standard Trek fare that one would expect would be part of that routine, such as setting-appropriate ships like Nebula, Delta Flyer, or what have you. If this were not a subscription-based game, wherein the only income generated comes specifically from the item, then I would agree with you on this point.

Further, it's a matter of value. The entire Star Trek Online software package costs less than those ships. Each ship is itself an entire month's worth of game time. It says a lot about a game if the proposed value of the entire game is actually less than one item in the game, particularly if that item is little more than a new skin.

As far as my not having purchased anything, it's not about the price. It's simply there's nothing in there I particularly want. The only item of any interest to me at all is the TOS Connie, but given the setting of the game it would feel odd to fly her, especially since she'll be useless after T1. Beyond that, I'm just generally opposed to paying extra for content unless that content fundamentally improves gameplay, such as an expansion pack that adds new features.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
03-04-2011, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thun712 View Post
True, but we can't keep up with the rate at which they're releasing the ships. By the time I've saved for one there is already two out. It's a direct ploy to frustrate folks into buying them, I really think that is unfair. They come up with flashy new ships that they know people want and after showing it and teasing about it, they're just on the Store with the hefty price tag.
How dare the Devs offer you things you want, and how dare a business seek profit. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
03-04-2011, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotD
I do not consider volume to be a factor here. This is a subscription game where new content such as this is developed routinely either way. That is just part of the deal. Most of this stuff is pretty standard Trek fare that one would expect would be part of that routine, such as setting-appropriate ships like Nebula, Delta Flyer, or what have you. If this were not a subscription-based game, wherein the only income generated comes specifically from the item, then I would agree with you on this point.

Further, it's a matter of value. The entire Star Trek Online software package costs less than those ships. Each ship is itself an entire month's worth of game time. It says a lot about a game if the proposed value of the entire game is actually less than one item in the game, particularly if that item is little more than a new skin.

As far as my not having purchased anything, it's not about the price. It's simply there's nothing in there I particularly want. The only item of any interest to me at all is the TOS Connie, but given the setting of the game it would feel odd to fly her, especially since she'll be useless after T1. Beyond that, I'm just generally opposed to paying extra for content unless that content fundamentally improves gameplay, such as an expansion pack that adds new features.
Comparing the price of anything to the price of the monthly subscription is unfair. There are reasons why the subscription rate for MMO's hasn't increased over time, and none of them are because the value of money hasn't changed. If they had consistently risen in price as everything else labor based has since the first ones the subscription price would easily be 2-3 times as much. Yes, there are other factors; but, this fixed subscription rate that is unable to cover what's being provided is one of the very reasons for the existence of the C-Store.

Additionally, the $15 monthly subscription rate is so insignificant and so very close to zero that it is one of the large reasons why Free-2-Play is becoming a viable option for quality MMO's. They don't lose all that much subscription revenue while having an increased option to gain the more lucrative C-Store type revenue that hasn't had its pricing held artificially low. Of course, I suppose this is a discussion for another thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
03-04-2011, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
I just disagree that Cryptic should not have a C-Store.
I don't think they shouldn't have either. I think it needs to be revised. Either a second look at the prices, or a revision on the content. I don't think ships belong there.
Quote:
Additionally, the $15 monthly subscription rate is so insignificant and so very close to zero that it is one of the large reasons why Free-2-Play is becoming a viable option for quality MMO's. They don't lose all that much subscription revenue while having an increased option to gain the more lucrative C-Store type revenue that hasn't had its pricing held artificially low. Of course, I suppose this is a discussion for another thread.
There is a lot of truth to this. The C-Store makes all the sense and a half if STO was Free to play. But not so much in subscription. It seems like they're trying to generate revenue from a F2P system and a subscription system at the same time. Like someone said it feels as if we're charged twice. Or maybe it is just once for new missions and gameplay tweaks and again for all the new ships assets added.
Quote:
How dare the Devs offer you things you want, and how dare a business seek profit.
I understand that they need business and I support said business with my subscription and eventual C-Store purchase. But it now seems that every time a new ship is added, we are to be charged extra for it. I would like a more refined in-game way of obtaining ships. I strongly support crafting for them.
Quote:
Most of this stuff is pretty standard Trek fare that one would expect would be part of that routine, such as setting-appropriate ships like Nebula, Delta Flyer, or what have you.
Perhaps I am missing something, but it feels as if the new ship assets should have either come out at launch or have been added over time anyway. With a solid content-rich MMO world, the subscription fee can go in the majority towards advertising for more players, and server maintenance. However, due to the issues at launch, STO has had to work towards a level where it is rich and content-filled. They're not there yet, and they're doing a great job to get there. But why charge us extra along the way?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
03-04-2011, 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thun712 View Post
They're not there yet, and they're doing a great job to get there. But why charge us extra along the way?
Subscription fees only go so far. The C-Store helps Cryptic maintain a larger staff that can crank out more content more quickly than a smaller group could.
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