Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
03-06-2011, 11:26 AM
The whole 'photon torpedo salvo' got a big groan out of me for multiple layers of reasoning, I'm afraid. First, and most obvious, of course, is the whole 'Wow, my ship just incinerated my captain with a volley of, and I stress this phrase, matter/antimatter warheads. To avoid that, animate a beamout first, then obliterate the gate. But wait...what about all the friendly Remans busy capturing the city that you just incinerated with a strategic orbital strike made up of matter-antimatter warheads? I mean, is Starfleet really that comfortable with backstabbing their allies and/or committing war crimes? Thirdly, and less notably, my ship A) does not carry photon torpedoes, so who shot them, and B) cannot fire salvos of that density even if it did, so how many ships fired them.

Aesthetically a very cool scene, but, as happens so often, the people doing the animation/gameplay really, really need to talk to the writers for a sanity-check before they set things in stone.

The use of pinpoint orbital phaser strikes elsewhere in the mission is very, very cool; that should have been the norm from Day One for outdoor missions. I can't even begin to count how many times I've sighed upon seeing huge crowds of Klingons/Jem'hadar/Romulans/whatever standing motionless in clear view of my heavily-armed deathray-equipped cruiser in low orbit.

And before you even say it, no, the 'Orbital Bombardment' engineer ability doesn't cut it. It's absolute crap, for one, AND it can be fired indoors. I dearly hope this mission signals the start of a new mission design philosophy, where enemies position themselves accordingly under the assumption of orbital bombardment when outdoors. I'll be sorely disappointed if the use of pinpoint orbital strikes becomes a Weapon Of The Week, forgotten and packed away after its debut.

I realize I come off sounding negative here; don't mistake me. I adored this arc, it did many, many things right and only a few things wrong. I just hope this signals a change in philosophy such that the writers get to sanity-check the mission designers more aggressively in the future, as that's one area that STO badly needs improvement. (Get to the LZ to be teleported back to orbit. Hostile alien ship arriving in orbit is able to beam down dozens of troops while my ship sits there sucking its thumbs while they drop shieds to do so. Enemies can use transport disruptors whenever they want, but I can't use them to prevent hostile beam-ins/outs. Starfleet capital ship with hundreds and hundreds of crew always beams down precisely five people to engage several Klingon platoons. Why? The writers don't/can't sanity-check missions.)

I also realilze that many of those issues were present in Star Trek series writing itself. Much of Star Trek writing was really, really bad, however, so its use as a role model is perhaps unwise when you're writing your own scripts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
03-06-2011, 12:26 PM
Yes..I enjoyed this last one too. I liked the art and the way everything flowed thru out the mission.. Thanks again
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
03-06-2011, 12:45 PM
I liked the mission but I felt that the ending was a cliff hanger, was empress Sela kidnapped or rescued, were did the Iconian go, so on so on but cryptic should have a reason, can't wait till next series
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
03-06-2011, 02:23 PM
My jaw is on the floor.

*THIS* is how you do action in STO - I really felt like I was in a blockbuster movie for awhile there. Especially the orbital bombardment at the end. Heck you guys made this doubly perfect for my main character; it's well... just awesome.

I have only two (very minor) complaints, and I hesitate to even voice those because I liked this so much.


1) I really, really wish Orbital weapon fire could somehow use the weapons actually equipped on your ship. My ship uses phasers, so that part was fine... but I have Quantum torpedoes and Tricobalts on my ship, no Photons, so that bit felt a bit 'off'. (It will likely feel much weirder on my Tetryon using character, or my Antiproton user.)

2) And I know this one may even be coming eventually, but... We really, really need to be able to set some sort of uniform for our crews. Not just the ones aboard ship, but also the officers who beam in as reinforcements, be it as triggers in the mission or for the Security Team power. I know it's a minor thing overall, but these people, as is, don't feel like they 'belong' on my ship, because their uniforms are so very very different than what I've got set up for my crew.

Like I said, both of those were very, very minor complaints, and overall, this episode was fantastic. I need to re-try though since that Scorpion fighter got away from me... Was huge fun being able to take a shot at it though!

Oh, and, just to share a story with the community, something that may have made it a little extra-awesome from my perspective:


In the final fight with Hakeev, after calling in regular reinforcements, I used Tactical Team 2x (via the Tactical Initiative ability) to really swell my numbers for that fight. All was going well, when... THALARON MINE! I saw it at the last second and rolled away... then watched as all but one of my officers were incinerated.

I know they're just NPCs and all, but for a split second I was actually very, very very angry with Hakeev... so I whipped out my sword and tore him a new one in melee. It was glorious.

Probably one of the most satisfying MMO victories I've ever had.

So bravo on this one, and really the whole series.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
03-06-2011, 02:25 PM
well, i have returned after about 10 months of inactivity. the first few days of sto were really depressing. anyway after having been away for so long, i see much has changed, and then again some things have not...

First and foremost, Love the periodic missions, it really gives the feel of a story progressing, something other mmos fall short of and the only progress usually comes in expansions, this is a nice change. a interesting twist that will surly set you apart would be unique conclusions based on how previous missions were completed. i can see how it would be complicated to have a arc split, but im sure you can make it subtle, if not that would be ok too.

lastly, i really didnt see anything conflicting. saw a few posts about m/am torps not vaporizing you. something you trekkies should have realized by now... m/am torps are not at all that destructive... ST2 WoK enterprise took a bunch of torps WITH no shields and the final one rupturing the warp core which in turn killed Spock.

if you really want to point out discrepancies, point your finger at the bird of prey. Granted we asked for interiors and we got them, but BoPs are tiny their engineering deck and crew deck are on the SAME floor. ST4, they could barely fit two humpback whales, might i remind you this size about the size of the mess hall. and the warp core of a BoP is about the size of a walk in closet (a few computers and a di-lithium chamber) hence the reason they are so fragile, which has been pointed out MANY times, see ST6 UC and ST7 Gen. one or two torps is all it took to take em out while shields are down, which was usually the result of the warp core going critical NOT the torps themselves. so as you can see torps are NOT equivalent to tactical nukes, in-fact their warheads are quite small, with most of the mass dedicated to speed and guidance systems.

all in all, fantastic work, keep it up and you will have VERY loyal players / subscribers. and seriously people (speaking to the players mostly) WATCH the movies at the very least, alot can be learned so that you can avoid looking like an idiot.

as for the "Unique" bridge officer customization, i agree there has to be some, BUT i dont think to much customization... we have alot of players here if everyone's reman looks the same its a a bit of a let down. now i dont know if there have been other uniques release since i been away but i can imagine how this can be bothersome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
03-06-2011, 02:34 PM
Let's step back for a moment from (wildly inconsistent) movie/show torpedo yields and examine this from an engineering perspective. You claim that the M/AM warheads on photon torpedoes are weak. Then why are they used at all, in place of something like a fusion warhead which is an extrapolation of known 20th-century-era technology? Technology, I remind you, that can already manage 50 megaton yields. Even if the energy release of a matter-antimatter warhead wasn't well understood (it is, but leave that aside), you have the simple engineering question of why, if photon torpedoes are ineffectually weak, they are in service at all.

EDIT: For another viewpoint, the distance between that gate and my captain was inside the killzone for many IEDs. In other words, if an orbiting starship had launched a series of car bombs at the Iconian Gate, it would have been more dangerous to the captain next to it than that 'photon torpedo salvo.' It was a good mission, and I enjoyed the hell out of it, but of all parts to pick to irrationally defend, you chose that one?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
03-06-2011, 03:28 PM
I'm actually in two minds about the last mission in the arc.

On one hand, we recieved an exciting murder-spree through an urban environment that resulted in fun (Keep in mind just how rarely you hear that. Ever.) ground combat that keeps on giving regardless of how much it's played. This is how you should do ground combat - With Options. The model for spawning seven badguy companies per mission that you HAVE to slaughter is getting old. Infact, it was old before STO even launched.

Lets take an example. Your standard 'investigate planet' scenario. You approach the planet and beam down, leaving your ship parked in orbit. You are exploring a base, or a part of a planet and suddenly you get a comm message from your ship stating there is an enemy ship in orbit ; Where is the ability to engage that ship? Why weren't you given the option to engage enemy ships in the system before the ground mission, to prevent enemy reinforcements? Or as stated, bring Transporter Inhibitors to prevent anymore enemies from appearing?

Why aren't my bridge officers doing their Jobs when I'm not looking? While this can be explained through act of story, I actually want these things to be taken into account and play out through the mission. If I tell my ship to engage enemy vessels bringing in bad guys, I expect my ship to keep them occupied or at the very least, blow the hell out of the offending ship - Not to have my crew and ship sit there like they've discovered how fun window-cills are to lick.

This can even come with consequences. Tell your ship to engage the bad guys? it could be damaged to the point where it has to break orbit and run or be destroyed, leaving the enemy ship(s) free to land troops or even bombard the hell out of your location. Brought inhibitors? The enemy ships lance strike the hell out of them then the ground mooks appear. In some of the more well written episodes, the enemy and ai have gotten these things by act of plot, so why can't we, the players, get to use these simple, yet very common, star trek details?

On the Other hand? Story.

The last mission in the arc felt like one big excercise in Murder. The story in the last mission felt patchy and rushed to the point where it was almost non existant in parts. I can understand that the devs are frequently rushing to get these episodes written and out on scedule but when it results in lower quality than the rest of the arc, I would think it better to delay a day and get polish added than rush it out the door.

When compared with the other missions in the Romulan arc, I felt that the finale was a bit lacking in story other than 'Murderize Hakeev'. Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoyed every part of this mission, even the ground combat, I just feel like it could have been a bit more polished.

While I know it's a small hope, I'd love if the early story content for STO could have 'Ground Combat - With Options' rather than just murdering tons of dudes.

Also? SWORDS! YEAH!

I approve, despite it's flaws.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
03-06-2011, 03:43 PM
whitehave, to answer your question if m/am torps are weak why use them at all? the best answer i can come up with is this, beam weapons are not as effective on hull armor as explosives are. secondly a matter anti-matter reaction creates a small "singularity" consuming everything within a small area, sadly the torp would just vaporize going though a shield thus causing little to no damage to the energy field. beam weapons however are VERY effective against energy fields, even more so if harmonics are matched. lastly "primitive" fusion / fission reactions dont fare well in space and would not provide the damage threshold needed to destroy a ship unless the warhead was detonated within the starship. think of it this way, if a nuke were to be detonated directly on the center of say the saucer section of a galaxy class starship, the explosion would cascade out laterally and since there is no air pressure or gravity well in space the reaction would fizzle out without the assistance of a gravity well or singularity that exist in stars. ultimately a fusion or fission reaction would do little more that score the hull, something a conventional firecracker could accomplish. So a m/am warhear is really the only option for space warfare, in the event you have to level a city on a planet, Starship do come with a nuclear reactor for most axillary systems, im sure a clever engineer could fashion a crude nuclear warhead, though with the peaceful nature of starfleet, i doubt the thought crosses their minds often.

you are right however, the destruction of the arch, i have frequently been dangerously close to be threatened with falling debris, i dont think crushing is something personal shields protect very long against very effectively. Even the legendary Captain kirk met his demise to debris. in a crushing kind of way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
03-06-2011, 03:56 PM
i tottaly agree with you mithaw, ground combat with options definitely makes things very fun, sometimes i get lucky and can turn into solid snake and sneak past the enemies, but this is rare as usually you have to kill everyone.

i did like the fact you could call in a crew of soldiers, but sadly they went poof after the one squad was dead.... WTF guys, the skirmish was done but the battle and much less the war is NOT over.... i wish i could have just headed to my rack, when i was deployed to iraq.... "Well, the bomb went off, ima go take a nap, peace guys"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
03-07-2011, 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithaw
I'm actually in two minds about the last mission in the arc.

On one hand, we recieved an exciting murder-spree through an urban environment that resulted in fun (Keep in mind just how rarely you hear that. Ever.) ground combat that keeps on giving regardless of how much it's played. This is how you should do ground combat - With Options. The model for spawning seven badguy companies per mission that you HAVE to slaughter is getting old. Infact, it was old before STO even launched.

Lets take an example. Your standard 'investigate planet' scenario. You approach the planet and beam down, leaving your ship parked in orbit. You are exploring a base, or a part of a planet and suddenly you get a comm message from your ship stating there is an enemy ship in orbit ; Where is the ability to engage that ship? Why weren't you given the option to engage enemy ships in the system before the ground mission, to prevent enemy reinforcements? Or as stated, bring Transporter Inhibitors to prevent anymore enemies from appearing?

Why aren't my bridge officers doing their Jobs when I'm not looking? While this can be explained through act of story, I actually want these things to be taken into account and play out through the mission. If I tell my ship to engage enemy vessels bringing in bad guys, I expect my ship to keep them occupied or at the very least, blow the hell out of the offending ship - Not to have my crew and ship sit there like they've discovered how fun window-cills are to lick.

This can even come with consequences. Tell your ship to engage the bad guys? it could be damaged to the point where it has to break orbit and run or be destroyed, leaving the enemy ship(s) free to land troops or even bombard the hell out of your location. Brought inhibitors? The enemy ships lance strike the hell out of them then the ground mooks appear. In some of the more well written episodes, the enemy and ai have gotten these things by act of plot, so why can't we, the players, get to use these simple, yet very common, star trek details?

On the Other hand? Story.

The last mission in the arc felt like one big excercise in Murder. The story in the last mission felt patchy and rushed to the point where it was almost non existant in parts. I can understand that the devs are frequently rushing to get these episodes written and out on scedule but when it results in lower quality than the rest of the arc, I would think it better to delay a day and get polish added than rush it out the door.

When compared with the other missions in the Romulan arc, I felt that the finale was a bit lacking in story other than 'Murderize Hakeev'. Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoyed every part of this mission, even the ground combat, I just feel like it could have been a bit more polished.

While I know it's a small hope, I'd love if the early story content for STO could have 'Ground Combat - With Options' rather than just murdering tons of dudes.

Also? SWORDS! YEAH!

I approve, despite it's flaws.
Murder spree? are you serious?
There was no murder in the entire mission, unless you think that all the star trek series are littered with murder also.
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