Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-07-2011, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Didn't know the Technical Manuals and the ST Encyclopedias were soft canon. :p

Unless we have contradicting cannonical information, all smaller types of BoPs were B'Rels and the Cruiser-sized ones were K'Vorts.
Tech Manuals and Encyclopedias have never been considered to be canon.
Especially not when Canon contradicts them, and in this case canon states that B'rel class BoP's are large ships, not small.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 22
03-07-2011, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redheadguy
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, however, at this point I don't much care. The argument I've heard most often for not having the light cruisers, available at T5 is that "a TOS Constitution should never be able to compete with a Sovereign".

Well, now we have the T5 B'rel and I have not seen anyone complain about this classic ship "braking" the game. Even with the new cloak I don't see it as overpowered, cause you still have to fire your energy weapons to drop the shields of your enemy before your torpedoes are effective.
As much as I want a T5 TOS Connie, this isn't a real good argument. The B'rel retrofit was intended, as announced, to be a recreation of the ship from ST VI. Which would make it about the same vintage as the Excelsior class. And we have a T5 Excelsior refit.

My argument for the T5 TOS Connie is much like the ones above in the thread. Technology gets smaller as it advances, not bigger. Anything you can fit in a T5 Defiant, you can fit in a TOS Connie shell.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-07-2011, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redheadguy
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, however, at this point I don't much care. The argument I've heard most often for not having the light cruisers, available at T5 is that "a TOS Constitution should never be able to compete with a Sovereign".

Well, now we have the T5 B'rel and I have not seen anyone complain about this classic ship "braking" the game. Even with the new cloak I don't see it as overpowered

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahaha

The way I see it, Cryptic no longer has any excuse NOT to give us a way to have ALL of the lower ranked ships available for anyone to use at V.A. rank.

Iím just hoping that Cryptic doesnít drop them all into the C-store and call it a day. Rather, Iíd like to see a way for the lower ranked ships to rank up with you the way shuttles do.
Cryptic made it so it's the only cloak (the ONLY cloak) that will decloak you w/o your shields if any type of heal hits you. Can you say hazard emitter fun time?

I fly the heghta right now, and would gladly switch to a Brel (with its less HP and less console) if I can have the normal battle cloak of my heghta.

Thanks Cryptic, cheers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-07-2011, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middlemore
I believe DStahl has said they're looking at a way of using advanced crafting to refit ships to T5 standard.

On a side note, the reason nobody has complained about the Bre'el T5 being OP is because Feds got it nerfed into useless before it came out.
I wouldn't say it's useless, it does excel as a flying coffin.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-07-2011, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMiracle View Post
As much as I want a T5 TOS Connie, this isn't a real good argument. The B'rel retrofit was intended, as announced, to be a recreation of the ship from ST VI. Which would make it about the same vintage as the Excelsior class. And we have a T5 Excelsior refit.

My argument for the T5 TOS Connie is much like the ones above in the thread. Technology gets smaller as it advances, not bigger. Anything you can fit in a T5 Defiant, you can fit in a TOS Connie shell.
Sure, if you want it to tear itself to pieces.
Remember the Defiant is an extremely compact build, and it almost tore itself apart in its trial runs.
A connie would not stand a chance with that kind of high powered tech in her flimsy spaceframe.

Plus i should add that the notion of Technology getting smaller and not bigger simply is "not true".
It is true that computer tech keeps getting smaller in the real world.
However, other technology like Jet engines are A LOT larger than their piston engine predecessors and are actually getting "bigger".
Just as more advanced and higher performance car engines are actually larger than the engines found in most roadcars today.
And if one goes even more back then old engines like the T-Ford's engine is tiny compared to your average modern car.

Not everything can be shrunk, and some things that get better get bigger, not smaller.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-07-2011, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Sure, if you want it to tear itself to pieces.
Remember the Defiant is an extremely compact build, and it almost tore itself apart in its trial runs.
A connie would not stand a chance with that kind of high powered tech in her flimsy spaceframe.

Plus i should add that the notion of Technology getting smaller and not bigger simply is "not true".
It is true that computer tech keeps getting smaller in the real world.
However, other technology like Jet engines are A LOT larger than their piston engine predecessors and are actually getting "bigger".
Just as more advanced and higher performance car engines are actually larger than the engines found in most roadcars today.
And if one goes even more back then old engines like the T-Ford's engine is tiny compared to your average modern car.

Not everything can be shrunk, and some things that get better get bigger, not smaller.
that's nice,but you're still ignoring that it's explicit that in the STO timeline, the Starfleet Corps of Engineers have developed modular hulls so that Starfleet can design whatever ship it needs for the task. The "retrofit connie" is not a retrofit connie, but an entirely new hull made to look as such, perhaps out of nostalgia.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-07-2011, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Sure, if you want it to tear itself to pieces.
Remember the Defiant is an extremely compact build, and it almost tore itself apart in its trial runs.
A connie would not stand a chance with that kind of high powered tech in her flimsy spaceframe.
Because its impossible to make a Connie-shaped ship, 200 years later, out of different materials? There's no logical reason why they couldn't make a ship with T5 engines, shield, and weapon technology with the size and appearance of a TOS Connie. There just isn't. There are smaller ships with that technology. There are ships roughly that shape with that technology.

In terms of the 'why' they would want to, we have to be a little flexible, but I find making a few 'tribute' vessels a lot more believable for Starfleet than...oh...I dunno...no longer requiring uniforms.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-07-2011, 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorko1 View Post
that's nice,but you're still ignoring that it's explicit that in the STO timeline, the Starfleet Corps of Engineers have developed modular hulls so that Starfleet can design whatever ship it needs for the task. The "retrofit connie" is not a retrofit connie, but an entirely new hull made to look as such, perhaps out of nostalgia.
It looks like a connie hull, it is a connie hull.
Wether its modular or not its still subject to the very same stress and forces, every design has its limitations.

Thus if built out of exactly the same materiasl the Defiant hull will always be stronger and more durable than a connies hull.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-07-2011, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMiracle View Post
Because its impossible to make a Connie-shaped ship, 200 years later, out of different materials? There's no logical reason why they couldn't make a ship with T5 engines, shield, and weapon technology with the size and appearance of a TOS Connie. There just isn't. There are smaller ships with that technology. There are ships roughly that shape with that technology.

In terms of the 'why' they would want to, we have to be a little flexible, but I find making a few 'tribute' vessels a lot more believable for Starfleet than...oh...I dunno...no longer requiring uniforms.
Of course not, thats why we have a Tier 2 connie that can slot Mk XI equipment. :p
Else it would not have a place in STO period.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-07-2011, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
It looks like a connie hull, it is a connie hull.
Wether its modular or not its still subject to the very same stress and forces, every design has its limitations.

Thus if built out of exactly the same materiasl the Defiant hull will always be stronger and more durable than a connies hull.
But then there's another problem, you're assuming that it's built to be the destroyer that the Defiant truly is. Why can't the connie be built to be more of a swiss army knife of the future?

Besides all of that, excepting the larger neck, the connie model isn't far off from design next to the sovvie. That being said, the connie hull design should be able to perform similarly or at least would not be that bad of a design in the first place else Starfleet obviously would have eliminated the design long, long ago.
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