Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 NERFS and why they suck
03-07-2011, 11:45 AM
Hey, Dev's, I have a suggestion: grab random people, put there ships at random levels, explain the builds to them and run them through pvp, go!

It sucks. PvP is not some casual fun thing to do at this point. I used to have fun doing pvp and generally all the builds worked as you'd expect them, but everytime I get on, the build or type of ship that should work one way from basic logical reasoning has just been changed because somebody cried Nerf.

This isn't something to normally complain about on my end, because i'm more of a pve oriented type of guy, but it is annoying. These people just wrote up an exhaustingly long thread about nerfing cloaking mines that started not even 2 hours after the thing was released. 2 hours?! How do you know how well something is going to be adapted into the game after less than 2 hours, less than 1 hour for most since you had to complete the episode to get it!

Pvp is not fun, because it's been nerfed to death. Because some guy sees some inconvenience that he doesn't bother training the BO to deal with and cries Nerf because his set up that he's been running since god knows when is 1337 next to every one else's and he can't handle not rocking it out better than every one else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-07-2011, 11:48 AM
These people aren't even reading the arguments about how that reduces one more weapon or how they can just use polarise hull and update their stragety, they just cry.

I like the idea of the cloaking tractor mines, why should I be puunished for somebody who can't adapt to one little weapon?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-07-2011, 11:50 AM
nerfs are dumb

/10 char
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-07-2011, 12:18 PM
Sometimes, nerfs are a good thing.

Anyone remember the ridiculously long match lengths just after the Season 1.2 power changes? anyone remember when RSP was the "go-to" power in PvP?

Sometimes nerfs are good, sometimes they're bad.

Some nerfs are designed to make the game more fun; others are due to complaining; sometimes it's a mix of both.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-07-2011, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Sometimes, nerfs are a good thing.

Anyone remember the ridiculously long match lengths just after the Season 1.2 power changes? anyone remember when RSP was the "go-to" power in PvP?

Sometimes nerfs are good, sometimes they're bad.

Some nerfs are designed to make the game more fun; others are due to complaining; sometimes it's a mix of both.
yeah, I think I just exploded with a bit more nerd rage than is good for the human soul.

/quit nerd rage rant

I am going to continue my resistance to this though. It seems like every fun or game changing element introduced to pvp has to be restricted so other people can keep the experience the exact same.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-07-2011, 12:22 PM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-07-2011, 12:34 PM
i seriously do not care about pvp balance.

i just HATE it if the change the stuff i use.

example: DC Universe Online just had a BIG 1.2 GB patch a few days ago with new stuff everywhere.
Guess what people complain about? the screwed up walking animation of their chars.

And seriously i do get it !
I do set up my char how i like it, i test the 3 walking animations and take the one i like, who are they to go in there one month later switching everything arround?

Now...
i do get that there are ballance issues here and there, but that is no reason to cut the duration of the ability in half or double the cooldown. Change the damn STATS in the background instead !
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-07-2011, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorko1 View Post
These people aren't even reading the arguments about how that reduces one more weapon or how they can just use polarise hull and update their stragety, they just cry.

I like the idea of the cloaking tractor mines, why should I be puunished for somebody who can't adapt to one little weapon?
Have you actually read the counter-arguments?

To illustrate the issue another way. Imagine for some reason the Devs decided to boost all healing powers to grant twice the healing? What would you say? "Bring more damage?" I can just say "We already got all the damage we can give you". At some point, it is just too much.

Of course, Spam is a little more complicated.than that. The counter to it are different powers, but:
  • People already use a lot of powers to deal with repels, tractor beams and all that. At some point, you are just out of counters but there is still a lot left to deal with.
  • AoE abilities are not unlimited either, and they come at the expense of burst damage abilities. If you load up too many AoE powers, you do not have the damage burst capability to deal with heal-stacking teams (and any good team worth its salt will be doing that - especially if they also use "spam". So effectively, the heal-stacking mine-spamming team is now getting another weapon to its arsenal...).
  • The moments where you do not have sufficient AoE capabilities to deal with the spam, and you're out of control counters, it is likely you cannot fight effective at all - your primary damage dealers are "stuck", unable to target the intended target, making coordination impossible.

That is something anyone with experience in PvP can atnicipate. Yes, even 2 hours after the release. (Particularly since some people already worried that a Tractor Beam Mine Launcher could be a possible reward...)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Have you actually read the counter-arguments?

To illustrate the issue another way. Imagine for some reason the Devs decided to boost all healing powers to grant twice the healing? What would you say? "Bring more damage?" I can just say "We already got all the damage we can give you". At some point, it is just too much.

Of course, Spam is a little more complicated.than that. The counter to it are different powers, but:
  • People already use a lot of powers to deal with repels, tractor beams and all that. At some point, you are just out of counters but there is still a lot left to deal with.
  • AoE abilities are not unlimited either, and they come at the expense of burst damage abilities. If you load up too many AoE powers, you do not have the damage burst capability to deal with heal-stacking teams (and any good team worth its salt will be doing that - especially if they also use "spam". So effectively, the heal-stacking mine-spamming team is now getting another weapon to its arsenal...).
  • The moments where you do not have sufficient AoE capabilities to deal with the spam, and you're out of control counters, it is likely you cannot fight effective at all - your primary damage dealers are "stuck", unable to target the intended target, making coordination impossible.

That is something anyone with experience in PvP can atnicipate. Yes, even 2 hours after the release. (Particularly since some people already worried that a Tractor Beam Mine Launcher could be a possible reward...)
It would be annoying if everyone had Gravity Well+PSW+EWP on a Nebula too. In fact, it would be annoying if everyone used the same abiltiies.

I'd wait a week for the FOTM appeal of tractor mines to wear down. Tractor mines are countered in two stages: damage to the mine and a cleanse to the debuffs.

Once people realize this and start reverting back to their builds, tractor beam mines won't be as big an issue. Of course, I'm biased. I've been running an AoE Sci build that has several tools for countering both the mine and it's debuff to my ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-07-2011, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
It would be annoying if everyone had Gravity Well+PSW+EWP on a Nebula too. In fact, it would be annoying if everyone used the same abiltiies.#
Oh, it definitely is annoying. The "Spamming" concerns are not new.

But the Tractor Beam is something you can do _in addition_ to all that. (Or as a better alternative to existing variations, like Chroniton Mines.)
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