Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-08-2011, 03:30 PM
You're right, buff my tactical.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-08-2011, 04:04 PM
Tacticals do need to be buffed. Sensor scan and FoMM are basically the same skill, except SS is more powerful and versatile. I've been saying for a long time that FoMM should have something that makes it unique, like effecting shield resists.

The sad fact is that debuffing a target is better than buffing yourself, so if, in isolation, I have to chose between a sci or a tac, I'll chose sci every time.

Having said that, sci and tac do go together well. Sci debuffing the target + tac buffing himself = a very strong alpha.

The perfect team make up is 3 sci, 1 eng, and 1 tac. A 5 sci team is still going to kick ass and take names, especially with proper use of focus fire and SNB, not to mention warping in 15 ships all at once for an opening. A 5 eng team will be retardly tanky. But a 5 tac team is going to do nothing besides fall on it's face. There is a definite issue here. The classes are not balanced and there is no such thing as too much sci.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-08-2011, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
What?! SNB on a sci capt in an escort is key it allows a Sci capt to do "Damage" near the scale of a tac and also allow it to survive. Right now it is really easy to neuter a Tac escort because they have no way to counter sci skills that makes a tac escort even more fragile. If you put SNB on specific ships only then I say Alpha should be on escorts only and I can continue down the rabbit hole to point were no one will want to play.
I never said Science Ships in general get it, I said Science Captains only are able to use SNB in Science Ships.

And Sci's are able to do as much damage or seemingly more damage because SNB nullifies any defensive buffs and kills heals. And sensor scan is quite nasty, which is what makes Science in Escorts more deadly than any other combo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
If anything SNB needs to be nerfed. Azurian's idea is weird as usual though.
How is it weird? Gives Science Captains a reason to be in Science Ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-08-2011, 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
How is it weird? Gives Science Captains a reason to be in Science Ships.
  1. Actually, variety is a good thing
  2. Then you would need to do the same thing for engineers and tacticals and set aside a skill that only works on cruisers / escorts
  3. Come on man, that idea is just so obviously convoluted and odd. Do you actually expect anyone to agree with that?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-08-2011, 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
How is it weird? Gives Science Captains a reason to be in Science Ships.
For one, you just took a Captain power and regulated it to being ship-class dependent for use. Yes, Engy's RSF took a small hit but is still decently good.

For argument sake you don't specify anything about balancing the other powers.
Should FOMM be tied to TAC's only flying a Escort? Miracle Worker tied to Engy's flying a Cruiser?
We know that FOMM sucks compared to SScan....so now a TAC is even more worthless without being able to use that skill in other ships.
Regulating powers to be used just for class specific ships is a bad idea. Giving an additional power to use if a class flew their class-ship is not a bad idea tho.


Additionally, SNB is fine. It needs no changes.
What does need changing is this:
Miracle Worker: needs to have 14% shield resist added and a 15 sec immunity to hold & stun added to it. after all your engineers are working their butts off to make the ship go.
FOMM: Needs to scale with Combat Maneuvers and Battle strategy, so it is comparable to SScan using sensors and sensor array.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-08-2011, 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Tacticals do need to be buffed. Sensor scan and FoMM are basically the same skill, except SS is more powerful and versatile. I've been saying for a long time that FoMM should have something that makes it unique, like effecting shield resists.

The sad fact is that debuffing a target is better than buffing yourself, so if, in isolation, I have to chose between a sci or a tac, I'll chose sci every time.

Having said that, sci and tac do go together well. Sci debuffing the target + tac buffing himself = a very strong alpha.

The perfect team make up is 3 sci, 1 eng, and 1 tac. A 5 sci team is still going to kick ass and take names, especially with proper use of focus fire and SNB, not to mention warping in 15 ships all at once for an opening. A 5 eng team will be retardly tanky. But a 5 tac team is going to do nothing besides fall on it's face. There is a definite issue here. The classes are not balanced and there is no such thing as too much sci.
I agree with you 100%.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-08-2011, 05:17 PM
one must not forget that when hit by a subnuc it only lasts on the target for 30 seconds, so at most it increases an abilitys cooldown timer by 30 seconds (sure it says over 2 minutes but then it wears off and its close to the time it was before the subnuc)

would subnuc be better if it only did an immedieta cooldown on all powers (used or unused) for 30 seconds?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-08-2011, 05:53 PM
My only problem with it is it has a severe impact when faced against an all-Science stacked team. They can render you powerless indefinitely while the Escorts/BoP's tear you down.

Personally, I think speccing fully into Subsytem Repair ought to either reduce SNB's affect or increase resistance to SNB's affect. Being chain spammed SNB and SS is no fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-08-2011, 05:58 PM
Tacs need buffed? Please. The thing tacs could use is to lose one of their damage buffing powers and swap it for a defensive power. That is what is glaringly missing in a tac captain, and would probably amount to a buff in the end anyway.

As for SNB, Azurian, as usual has an incredibly ridiculous suggestion. Sci captains in an escort already suffer from several serious drawbacks that no other captain suffers. Number one is the skill point issue, being forced to dump skill points into the passive-free science tree to get anything out of several of their captain powers. That is compounded by the fact that dampening field and sensor scan are aux slaved powers. So simply being in a sci ship does actually make a sci more powerful due to the extra aux a sci ship has, and better skill synergy with the expensive skills a sci has to invest in.

A tac doesn't begin to suffer the skill problem, with all of their captain powers being tied to incredibly useful and far cheaper skills than the sci captain, skills that every captain class is well advised to heavily invest in because of the passives.

SNB has the further drawback of being only instantaneously useful. How many times have I used SNB only to see the target or their team immediately put up a new layer of defenses? Yeah a lot of good that SNB did.

It is also yet another symptom of the larger problem in this game, which is that a ship with no buffs is as good as dead, whereas a buffed ship can be extremely hard to kill. SNB is not the problem there, it just serves to expose the real issue, and only once every 2 minutes at most.

Most sci captains are not going to use SNB every time its up because it has to be used strategically. APA? No just use it whenever there is a good fight.


And on another point, sensor scan is barely comparable to FOMM. FOMM doesn't exist in a vacuum. Tacs get a massive buff in APA which FOMM makes even more powerful. Scis get the very up or down SNB to help sensor scan. That is it for a sci's damage buffing. If SNB is defeated by teamwork or a second layer of defenses, the sci is screwed. The tac still has plenty of damage to pump out and can change targets and still get a solid benefit from APA. A sci has to be very lucky to catch a whole team in sensor scan.

Finally, the actual debuff is virtually identical between the two powers in an escort, depending on deflector and console choices, and can very easily be worse. Why? Again aux slaving and a heavy dependency on skill from equipment.

So please, no more sci nerfing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-08-2011, 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
  1. Actually, variety is a good thing
  2. Then you would need to do the same thing for engineers and tacticals and set aside a skill that only works on cruisers / escorts
  3. Come on man, that idea is just so obviously convoluted and odd. Do you actually expect anyone to agree with that?
I won't argue that we need variety. But the thing about RSF, Nadion Inversion, APA, or FOMM is that these abilities don't change a fight in an instant. For example, you going against a damaged oppoent who has Shield 3 up with Hazzard Emitters, one SNB and that person is very likely dead in the next couple of seconds.

Thats an too powerful an ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
As for SNB, Azurian, as usual has an incredibly ridiculous suggestion. Sci captains in an escort already suffer from several serious drawbacks that no other captain suffers. Number one is the skill point issue, being forced to dump skill points into the passive-free science tree to get anything out of several of their captain powers. That is compounded by the fact that dampening field and sensor scan are aux slaved powers. So simply being in a sci ship does actually make a sci more powerful due to the extra aux a sci ship has, and better skill synergy with the expensive skills a sci has to invest in.

A tac doesn't begin to suffer the skill problem, with all of their captain powers being tied to incredibly useful and far cheaper skills than the sci captain, skills that every captain class is well advised to heavily invest in because of the passives.
Another ridiculous suggestion? Then by all means come up with an alternative than "please don't hurt my science".

Nobody is forcing Science Captains to put put points into Science Abilities no more than Engineers having to for Engineering abilities. And Aux is only important if you are in a Science Ship, not an Escort or BoP

Quote:
SNB has the further drawback of being only instantaneously useful. How many times have I used SNB only to see the target or their team immediately put up a new layer of defenses? Yeah a lot of good that SNB did.

It is also yet another symptom of the larger problem in this game, which is that a ship with no buffs is as good as dead, whereas a buffed ship can be extremely hard to kill. SNB is not the problem there, it just serves to expose the real issue, and only once every 2 minutes at most.

Most sci captains are not going to use SNB every time its up because it has to be used strategically. APA? No just use it whenever there is a good fight.
Doesn't mean people automatically have a new buff waiting in the winds. And if you are in an attacking BoP and just debuffed with SNB, they would likely be dead before they got a chance to pop a heal or another buff.
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