Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-10-2011, 04:05 PM
ok ive been in heated discusions with many people who have already jumped all over this post abot this b4... ive put some thought into how i was wording my argument, and i feel the flaw is all in how i state my case...

let me set it up..

i am a tactical officer.

i like to build my ship with the cmdr tac station, a lt, tac station, an ensign tac station, well say a lt eng. station and say a lt sci station (basically the defiant)....

now lets say i dont like the defiant. but i do like an intrepid class. it is impossible for me to play the build that i have made, and enjoy on anyother ship... these ships are from the 23rd and 24th century.. it is illogical to think that they couldnt be refitted to be of particular use in one task first off, and these are not the builds of ships, but rather the boff (or senior crew) you choose to man the ship... further more, i dont like losing the two hard (weapon) points, and i can live with consoles, (but i think all ships should have 2 of each consol, and have 2 universal consoles, this would allow for more freedom in our builds.) the ship is just a skin, i dont understand why i am held back from playing my favorite "iconic" ship as a paying customer...

to set the record streight im currently an engineer and the ship i am dreaming for is the ambassoder, and i cant waite for it to come out.

i dont udnerstand the argument of "all the ships can be as potent as another with the right boff build" except, not everyone wants to play the way you do, different strokes for different folks. the ships should have been, and still should be made in a more universal way. the streangths of your abilites, and boff layout, should reflect/lean towards your own classification... more than 3/4 of the game is in space, one does not choose to be a tac officer to use tychens rift in space because his/hers favorite ship is a sci vessel... this is unfair, and is one of the biggest complaints between my vast circle of fleeties/friends in game... \

ok the intrepid class was not a science ship in canon as well, christ, its first mission was to hunt down the makie (spelling lol) and at no time do they say it in the show that it is specifically a science vessel (just to clear up the inacuracy in this forum post)..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-10-2011, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
IMO - VERY bad idea. As others have said, the ships ARE available to all classes, some are designed to work better when commanded by certain classes, BUT right now, as it stands, any Class can be effectivce in ANY ship; so I don't see the need for something like this as all it does is homogenize evrything; and I don't think that's a good thing myself.
as someone who has spent alot of time researching this, (and i do consider myself an above average player, been playing mmo's for a long time, and ive been playing this one pretty much since launch, and i usually wipe the floor with people) i find that as a tac officer in a sci vessel, you are ok at best. your not a game changer, nor are you someone who can be counted on to do anything all that substantial.. in pvp you get targeted and generally killed first (since you are squishy and a garunteed kill).. as an engineer in a sci vessel you really miss those two hard points.. especially as a healer who has weapon power pretty low to begin with.. but even when you are a d.e.m you still miss those hard points. also, you dont have any real offensive bonuses like in the other classes...

the only classes i see that benefit from being "swingers" is, escorts are pretty win for everyone, and tac in a cruiser... anything else i consider a waste... my sci in a cruiser couldnt use half my abilites cause i couldnt keep my abilities in arc, and my engineer in a sci vessel just lacked the punch it needed to be effective both pvp and pve,

where it did work was my heals towards myself and going out were nice as an engineer in a sci vessel, but that was abot the only up side....

and let me reiterate, if i wanted tofly a pure sci vessel, i would have built a sci, if i wanted to fly a tactical anything, i would have been a tac, and likewise for engineer... i feel as if my choices are very narrow, and i dont like only having one or two choices in a game that has very little content (and very large content droughts) anyways...

so far, in all my arguments, well more than half of the community wants ships to change, supports ships being class specific (that would mean three copies of each ship) id say another quarter dont care, and only a quarter appose it. id say majority rules...

(above estimates are from my many many many personal arguments, seeing what others say and argue, and polling of my friends/fleeties, and other fleets within our fleet networks... they are by no means actual figure, but more of a close guestimate, (though they are pretty close)...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-10-2011, 04:38 PM
Putnam, I believe everyone understands what you are proposing. Any ship should be able to have any BO setup. Essentially taking away the class aspect from ships. If you want an Advanced Escort layout on a Heavy Cruiser than so be it. We get that, and it doesn't matter how many different ways you say it, some of us still don't like the idea.

You said that not everyone wants to play the way we do, that's fine, and not everyone wants to play the way you do. Why is your idea more or less valid than ours? You said the game should be designed your way. What makes your way better than the way it is now? No offense, but just because you came up with the idea and really like it doesn't mean it is the best course of action. Perhaps what we have now isn't the best choice either, but it works very well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-10-2011, 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by attilio View Post
Putnam, I believe everyone understands what you are proposing. Any ship should be able to have any BO setup. Essentially taking away the class aspect from ships. If you want an Advanced Escort layout on a Heavy Cruiser than so be it. We get that, and it doesn't matter how many different ways you say it, some of us still don't like the idea.

You said that not everyone wants to play the way we do, that's fine, and not everyone wants to play the way you do. Why is your idea more or less valid than ours? You said the game should be designed your way. What makes your way better than the way it is now? No offense, but just because you came up with the idea and really like it doesn't mean it is the best course of action. Perhaps what we have now isn't the best choice either, but it works very well.
and i have stated in several posts that this is merely my way, and blah blah blah... what im getting at is the most fair way , is a way that lets everyone have a little bit of what everyone wants... and i feel that (with a little tweaking) what the op is praposing is the most equally fair (middle point) that can be achieved.. its like your way of playing as democratic, and mins is republican, we need something in the middle.... my proposals have always been that ships should be a blank slate and when your character class gets the ship it becomes the ship of yoru character class (eseentially giving tac buffs to a ship if yoru a tac officer and so on and so forth). however that is very drastically on my side of what i want, so again, this plan that is proposed is somewhere in the middle (with a little work).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15 I like the idea of open slots
03-10-2011, 04:55 PM
Whatever ship you may choose Just choose open slots .
Because I'm a tac if I wanted to fly an Galaxy Class why not ... ????
Picard was an science and really not an engineer .....So yeah so indeed....

I think it should be universal even with that new crew thing cumming up ....
Why not ... I mean ...

Take the Galaxy it had normal 8 Phaser Banks and 4 Torpedo slots Wha hahah try it on STO you just have 8 slots and that's it .

They should give indeed Lot's more freedom on this, and if a normal PC game can do that look for instance to Star Trek Dominion You put on a Galaxy Mark 10 phaser banks and shields and what ever and try to put mark 6 engine the computer just say sorry the engine is to weak to do that .....
Because same with the power levels most games of star trek all power levels where 100 and you could set them to 125 if you wanted to and not what cryptic did everything at 50 % ....
But Anny case Universal Consoles would be great they want us to be creative why the heck not right....

Greets Jetal
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 16
03-10-2011, 05:18 PM
So this really has nothing to do with your Captain's class. You just want to separate functionality and appearance. Maybe you should phrase it that way. :-D
Lt. Commander
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# 17
03-10-2011, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
So this really has nothing to do with your Captain's class. You just want to separate functionality and appearance. Maybe you should phrase it that way. :-D
Even that would be a major no NO for me and many others I think. The ability to visually identify what ship you are facing and thus what it can do is hugely important in pvp. I mean I am far more keen to engage that escort than that star cruiser, with this idea that escort could be the star cruiser and the star cruiser the escort.

That would ruin pvp quite badly and makes no sense in anyway, i mean tos connies are bad enough, but defiants firing beams and tanking damage that would make the ent-E crumble?


No good, just deal with the fact the better ship for you may not always be the one you like the most. I mean I would no doubt be more effective in a fleet escort, but i hate how it looks so I fly advanced while I would prefer an extra engineering console and BO skill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-10-2011, 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liandras
Even that would be a major no NO for me and many others I think. The ability to visually identify what ship you are facing and thus what it can do is hugely important in pvp. I mean I am far more keen to engage that escort than that star cruiser, with this idea that escort could be the star cruiser and the star cruiser the escort.

That would ruin pvp quite badly and makes no sense in anyway, i mean tos connies are bad enough, but defiants firing beams and tanking damage that would make the ent-E crumble?


No good, just deal with the fact the better ship for you may not always be the one you like the most. I mean I would no doubt be more effective in a fleet escort, but i hate how it looks so I fly advanced while I would prefer an extra engineering console and BO skill.
i dont think yoru getting it, were not talking about buffing hulls, or modifying turn rates, or anything like that, just how it is built, ud still be able to extrapolate whats coming yoru way... i mean it tells u if the person who is approaching you is sci,l tac or eng. and id be able to make a fairly educated guess as to how that star cruiser or escort is built by the class...

i just dont think that iconic ships shoul be held back by a specific class... i mean im a huge treck fan and i want to stay canon (which this idea doesnt hurt canonality), and starfleets vessels were all mostly frigates and cruisers, all being able to accomplish all the goals the others could, the only ones that varied from this were ideally the oberth, the defiant (which case it still had pretty good sensors and other stuff), and the prometheus... all other ships were explorers that were pretty neutral as far as a specalization..

to take it even a step further, we have a ship that was perfect to be completely universal (the nebula) and its very useless to tac and eng (as a sci ship) and most sci peeps are unhappy with it...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-10-2011, 06:03 PM
No, I do not want homogenization in my STO MMO. WoW may have done it for very specific reasons but STO does not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-10-2011, 08:02 PM
No, I'm not talkiing about making a TOS connie viable at VA rank. That would be dumb. What I'am proposing is making each ship viable for every class. The T1 connie will stay at it's present tier. You would just be able to fly any ship you want as any class. Maybe make changing the stations when you take possesion optional and cost some EC to have completed. Here's an idea, to make them stand out in PVP, put an RT for "Refit Tac" after the name and so on for Eng. R/E and for Sci. R/S. that way you would still have some basic idea of what is coming after you.

I seem to remember it being stated in the shows that Starfleet engineers were making ships to be multi-purpose modular vessel's, especially after the Borg showed up on the scene, and the Dominion War started. The reasoning being, they could swap out a Science and Explorer package on a ship, with more of an offensive package on the fly so to speak. Cutting down on the time needed to refit ships with all of their Battle Rattle, and get them to the Front Lines as quickly and effeciently as possible. The one exception being the Defiant Class, it being the first and only Starfleet ship made specifically as a Warship from the get go.

Actually, I think my idea would go a long way to leveling the playing field in PVP. No longer would you be able to instantly tell. "Hey that dude's in an Escort, easy kill". I think alittle bit of the unknown injected into the PVP would be a good thing and make it more exciting for everyone. Frankly I 'm finding PVP is starting to get rather boring, stale and mechanical. Each encounter with a certain class of ship is not an unknown engagement anymore. You already know what you are going to face. In warfare that is never the case. You may have the best intelligence in the world, but a battle plan rarely if ever survives the first engaement with the enemy. They will always have a surprise or two waiting, that you did not anticipate. Unless you are Admiral Thrawn that is.
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