Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
03-14-2011, 07:28 AM
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
but they should... and they ARE... All the VA ships are basically copies of RA ships with things added to them. How can this not make it stronger?

Defiant got cloak

Galaxy-R got a pet
Intrepid got ablative
Marauder got pets
Vorenus got heal-pets
D'Kyr got heal-pet
All these ships lose a console slot for their abilites. That is what Cryptic devs hoped would balance the special abilities. The arguably weakest abilities (Marauder, Varanus and D'Kyr pets) do not have an innate drawback other then the console slot, but the Galaxy's saucer seperation makes the ship more maneuverable at the cost of hit points, the Ablative Armor makes the ship unable to use energy weapons. Well, and cloak always has the drawbacks of shield loss and the inability to fire anything while cloaked.
Of course these are not net-negative or zero-sum abilities. They are good. But that's why you pay a console for them.

It can be argued that the devs didn't really think the console slot losses through to the end, that they overestimate the value of some slots. I'd definitely think they are doing that for science consoles (after the nerf), and they migh be doing that for tactical consoles for Science Vessels specifically.

But just because one ability is a fancy clickable and the other is just a straight +15 % damage output bonus or a +8 bonus to energy levels does not mean they can't be equal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
03-14-2011, 07:29 AM
Will the conspiracy never end or must the Devs just give a "kill BoP" button to the feds before they give up the witchhunt?
Be happy you have a Escort/Science/Cruiser hybrid vessel to play with and leave the BoP witch hunt out of of the debate.
The MVAM is a useful tool, only time will tell if its OP or merely put to good use by a competant player.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
03-14-2011, 07:41 AM
Originally Posted by startrekfan View Post
Those ppl ??? Rly ??? You aren't one of them anymore ??? LOL

I remember well how you complained after your fleet lost match vs WoG team. You said that Klingon spam is OP + few offensive words at us - you even added my pal from the fleet to your ignore list. It was recently - maybe 4 or 5 weeks ago during KT league.
Why even respond to his posts? His opinions in this topic are worthless since he is clueless about finer points of pvp dynamics demonstrated well by no one answering his pointless dribble.

About the new fed escort, on paper it looks op and outclasses the bop.

If it is so, can only be seen in practice via some sort of new fleet vs fleet tournament when experienced pvp players will get most out of the ship. Until then we can only guess at it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
03-14-2011, 07:44 AM
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
What they were copied from is not relevant. The point is that the ships you can only get at levelcap are equal to the RA ships +one ability. Be it a useless ability or not. Not gamebreakingly better, but still better. The Gal-R gets a turnrate far beyond any other cruiser, and a huge pet that does nasty phaser-procs. The Intrepid gets a free 15 sec RSP. And the Marauder/Vorenus gets spam. :/

All VA ships seem to have some advantage over RA ships. I can't believe that is accidental...
PPL say that Interpid is OP cause Ablative btw LOL (btw no skill shall put interpid out of ablative armor, but there is 2 skill what does Ehm!!! Nerf that skill too...). BoP is still on pair with any VA refits, with its unique abilities. Gal-R's pet doesnt has the same chance to proc like any other pet/ships?
As i said MVAM AE is no more OP than any ship in game. It lost a ltcmdr tact (lost beta or rapid2/scatter2/HY3 so all the good dmg skills) and got ltcmdr sci. So there is nothing to QQ about. I think I'll change back to old AE anyway, cause i miss those ltcmdr tact skills more. So even if that ship is more tanky, lost nice tact boff skills. It IS ballanced.

Nerf MVAM AE, and then nerf all other ships too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
03-14-2011, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by Kyle-Phoenix View Post
... BoP is still on pair with any VA refits, with its unique abilities. ...

just why does nobody fly the B'rel refit?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
03-14-2011, 09:38 AM
First off, please take my post as my personal opinion, I am not trying to sound official, or like any kind of an expert.

It appears that it is common (almost expected honestly) that anything newly introduced to STO is immediately protested. It doesn't matter if it is a Mission reward, new weapon, new ship, or simply an adjustment to something currently existing. Often, it appears that people make up their mind about these additions (seeing them as good or bad), and quite commonly close their mind to opposing views regardless of facts existing or not.

I don't PVP often, so I guess my opinion is moot (according to attitudes on here). However, when entering Capture and Hold the last couple of days, I was amazed at how many people tend to seek out, and target us Prometheus piloting captains.

I wasn't even piloting an MVAM equipped version, and was focused more on flag capturing than battle. Regardless of this, I found myself the target of swarms on the opposing teams instantly. First I thought it was because I was a new Avatar in PVP, and was just getting the "new guy treatment". But after some time, I noticed other Promethius class ships on my side also becoming primary targets. Other escorts were more or less ignored, and or less often targeted.

It is just an observation, but I think many (in game, and on forums) are targeting the new ship from Dry Dock, testing it, looking for weaknesses and whatnot. I think it is a good thing, and despite having to respawn multiple times per session, I think it should continue for a bit before a serious look should be taken into reducing powers.

That being said, I question the rational of threads requesting something brand new to be nerfed, or otherwise disabled before anyone can really know about it. Yes I know this ship was on Tribble, but that is a test environment, regardless of how many people have used / tried the ship.

I have to agree with other posts suggesting that we give things time to settle, gather data, and then approach the Devs with suggestions. But, that is just my worthless opinion as a casual PVP player.

Best Regards,

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
03-14-2011, 09:50 AM
I had a similar experience yesterday, often getting targeted even though I am NOT a MVAM AE.

I did duke it out with one in solar wind, however. Got him good.

He wasted his Alpha (no back up either, no lt cmd tac) against my Borg Procced shields and then wasted his shockwave against my Omega.

That left him with nothing, so I proceeded to make much boom of his vwessel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
03-14-2011, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by DevorRentreen View Post

just why does nobody fly the B'rel refit?
The B'Rel Refit is not one of the proudest moments of the community or the Devs in my opinion.
We (as in some of the community, of course) had a - in my eyes still justified - fear that the Cloak could be "abused" (rather: too effective) in a role the cloak wasn't really designed for - healing - and asked that to be changed. But the Devs "fix" was an overreaction that made the enhanced battle cloak weaker then normal cloak or battle cloak in several common situations.
And to this day we have not been able to get the devs to fix their fix and put up some more reasonable limitations.

That said - I still see B'rel retrofits in PvP. So maybe some just don't know better, or found builds that make it work.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
03-14-2011, 03:16 PM
So some people say the Excelsior is OP, some say the Defiant is OP, and some say the MVAM is OP...

Now that we have OPd ships of all classes, can't we just say OP is the new P?

(and give us some VA KDF ships too!)

come to think of it... if the gave us a raptor with a Ltcmdr sci... would people actually start using it? I doubt I would...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
03-14-2011, 03:29 PM
How about we just all agree to drop discussion.

The way I see it, we are no longer doing anything productive, and are just "batting around the bush" with old ideas. What we have is this:

Okay, but what if it's used on the old Advanced Escort?
Pet Spam
Not as much as the Carrier or Scorpion Fighters, and the Pets are idiots anyway.
Yeah, but Lt.Cmnder Sci Slot is OP and OP on one part now means that anything that can possibly have MVAM is OP.
Umm.... Okay......... Again, the pets are complete idiots, so the only real threat is whatever sector the player controls, of which only one would pose a real threat.
Yeah but it's three pets for no health loss, so it's impossible to find and kill the right guy
Only one has the nametag
I'll be dead by then
Than just hit the guy who doesn't use Beta or FAW, or for that matter, doesn't use Phasers and Photons
He still has 39000 hull.
The sheilds on escorts are weaker than just a bubble of Scotch tape around the ship, and unless they happen to have EPS I and ET II as their Eng. abilities, they will die very easily.
Yeah, but since me and my friends think that MVAM is a bad thing in PvP, we have to make sure that it gets hyper-nerfed to the point where PvE people can't enjoy it
That's not a valid argument
Fine then we'll just kill every Prommie we see.

Which is why this thread needs be closed. It's looking like the beginnings of a flame war.
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